What a lousy idea. Republicans in the state Senate want to put House Bill 2 up for a referendum. We’re not a referendum state and it won’t solve anything. It might make matters considerably worse.
If the bill is put up for a vote of the people, it will either be a non-binding referendum that would still require the legislature to pass it or uphold it, or it will be a constitutional amendment. Republicans keep trying enshrine discrimination into our constitution. Putting the bill up for a vote will just cost the taxpayers millions of dollars and cause more division and rancor than is here now.
Right now, the bill could be repealed. Once it’s in the constitution, it will be much harder to undo the damage. Like the marriage amendment, the court will eventually strike it down, but North Carolina could see a world of hurt before that happens.
Companies are protesting the state now. Yesterday, Bank of America CEO Bryan Moynihan reiterated his company’s opposition. Enshrining it in the constitution is not likely to make him or his colleagues accept it. It’s more likely to send companies like Bank of America fleeing the state. Why in the world would Republicans want to take that type of gamble?
Republicans keep piling on. They’ve made the state a national embarrassment and the butt of late-night jokes. They’re scaring off businesses and entertainment. The free marketeers made a deal with the social conservatives that’s now gone bad. Companies won’t overlook discrimination for the sake of low taxes and lax regulation. We’re all paying to price for their miscalculation.
Thomas Mills is the founder and publisher of PoliticsNC.com. Before beginning PoliticsNC, Thomas spent twenty years as a political and public affairs consultant. Learn more >
I am totally against HB2, but I don’t think even the idiots in the NCGA are saying that transgenders are molesters and rapists…I think that they are saying that if any guy in NC can PRETEND to be transgender and put on a dress and head for the ladies’ room, we can’t stop them according to the ordinance that was passed in Charlotte. Mind you, it’s not ACTUALLY a problem, but they sure are selling it as one. But the misconception that all conservatives think that transgenders are dangerous bothers me a little, because I know several conservatives that don’t have a problem with them. They are just buying the GA’s BS about the predators taking advantage of the situation. I try to point out that there haven’t been any documented cases of male predators taking advantage of a law allowing transgenders to use the bathroom of their choice to go be a predator and get away with it…but they are scared by just the thought, so they don’t mind the law.
Nevermind all the other crap in the law. They just want to talk about the bathrooms. This was really a perfect play for the NCGA… except for the huge, unexpected backlash from fame and fortune. That had to put a kink in their happy dance.
Repeal it, idiots.
That’s what I don’t understand about all of this. People who support HB 2 act like without it, men would have the right to go into a women’s restroom and commit crimes without being punished for them. Charlotte’s ordinance did not give people permission to commit crimes! As a man, I could walk into the ladies room right now – they don’t have locks on the doors! This isn’t about bathrooms at all – it’s about piling even more discrimination onto the transgender community.
Excellent point, Mooser, one I have also made to supporters of the law. Crime is crime, and there is nothing stoping a fully clothed male, or one who put on a dress, to just walk in the restroom and make trouble, even with this law. Criminals will be criminals, and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. THAT is our problem, actually…how many criminals get slap on the hand after slap on the hand rather than serious sentences for violent crimes? It’s ridiculous. Put them in jail, and throw away the key. Or for goodness sake, at least consider a real, action altering sentence, so they will think twice about doing more of the same. It’s shameful.
All the public restrooms I’ve been in DO have lockable doors on the stalls, so it seems to me this ridiculous law addresses what’s essentially a non-issue. Furthermore, gender identity is at least partially in the eye of the beholder: I can vouch for this, having recently gone into a public restroom and mistaken a large, short-haired, casually-dressed woman for a man (seeing her from the back). As far as I could tell, no one was harmed by the encounter (although I felt pretty stupid afterward). What’s next–a law that requires all females to wear elaborate hair styles and dresses, and men to sport crew-cuts and work boots in order to use the facilities? Or will there be gender police at the door to check our private parts–and will that involve requiring us to disrobe, or will a clothing-penetrating ray be used? If the latter, could said ray also be used on the skulls of members of the GA and other state officials, to determine whether they actually have functioning brains? Inquiring minds–and disgusted voters–want to know if this is the best use the GA can make of our tax dollars; or if schools, infrastructure, the environment etc. might be just a teeny bit more in need of the GA’s concentrated thought processes (assuming they have any).
Love the idea of knowing a “ray” that would examine the skulls of the GA! Just got an update on my phone that the US Justice Dept. has now “warned NC state officials that they could lose millions of dollars in federal funding unless they change the controversial measure limiting access to bathrooms for transgender people because they are in violation of federal civil rights law” — can’t wait to see how McCrory & Co. respond to this.
Well said!
It’s already on the ballot! Vote in November for a change in our State government.
Let’s not forget that this “idea” came from Sen. Tom Apodaca, whose earlier brainstorm was to make Charlotte pay for the special legislative session that enacted HB 2. To my knowledge, he hasn’t embarrassed himself by bringing that one up again.
Let’s see. Wasn’t there a public vote on the ballot some years back regarding “Smoking in Public Places”? It passed, and almost all bars and restraunts lost a lot of business due to this ban. What is wrong with people! I don’t want to share a bathroom with a man! It’s disgusting and it has nothing to do with “transgender” or whatever. It has to due with men don’t know how to hit the freaking toilet seat!! It’s bad enough that a lot of women don’t clean up their mess in the restroom, add a male to that and it is gross!
A lot of us geezers dribble, too. 🙂
I assume that means you avoid all bathrooms that are marked for both men and women to use?
Smoking bans are not discriminatory. They are about health issues. Everyone’s, even those who are exposed to second hand smoke, are at greater risk for a range of health issues. That is a far cry from wishing to adding an amendment to the NC Constitution which is clearly discriminatory.
…and this is why we can’t rule by referendum. Too many folks don’t WANT to be informed about what ‘transgender’ means. They WANT to believe it means men in the ladies room. Transgender folks are not ‘whatever’. Yes, they have different circumstances than you. If everyone knew someone personally…a family member or a child in your school…you might be open to learn rather than put blinders on. I’m sure if NC had used a referendum to integrate the schools in the 60s, it wouldn’t have happened. Our referendum will likely go the way of Amendment 1 and then, later, the Supreme Court will find it unconstitutional. I’m sorry that it scares you to live in such a diverse world.
I think you’ve been smoking something, all right! I don’t remember any referendum on smoking and I can’t find any reference to it online. NC is not a referendum state. If we DID do a vote on something, it would be non-binding. Also, everything I can find indicates that restaurants and bars did not lose business because of the smoking ban. In fact, many places reported no difference or actually an increase in business. As to your other point, you’ve probably already shared a bathroom with a transgendered woman who was born a man, but you didn’t know it. Do you ask to see the va-jay-jay of every woman who’s in the bathroom with you? Sheesh.
No. It is never wrong to ask the people. If you believe in a position, get the vote out and win. Don’t decide that you know better than we do. It’s not what we are hoping to hire you to do.
Do you people have any knowledge of how HB2 came about or what is contained in it? I think allowing a vote would be a wonderful idea!! Why not allow the people of NC decide who they wish to share the restroom with?
Haether:
Do you not have any knowledge of how the governments of the US and it states are constituted and established? Our governments are not referendum, popular vote, or plebiscite based constructs. The are all representative democratic republics, based on the people electing representatives who propose bills and then vote them into law–or not.
And as Thomas states, the result of a ballot proposition would be a “non-binding referendum that would still require the legislature to pass it or uphold it, or it will be a constitutional amendment.” And, if the latter, it would most assuredly, like the earlier marriage amendment, be found ultimately unconstitutional under the federal law of the land.
You obviously haven lived in Alabama! Almost everything of importance is put up to a statewide referendum. In many cases even local governments are required to get statewide referendum approval for local matters. Don’t know about the other 49 states but certainly there is at least one that rules often by referendum. Yeah, I know Alabama is backward but it is there.
Some of us are simply against bigotry and discrimination. As for a referendum, if this state were to vote to enshrine this in its Constitution, it would drive many of us to re-consider living here. Gays, lesbians, bisexual, transgender people are NOT perverts. I would be willing to bet that most of us have been in a bathroom at some point in the past with a transgender person and never known it. Do you even know an openly gay person? A lesbian? A bisexual? A transgender person? If you live in any place with more than a couple of hundred people, I guarantee you that at least one of these individuals exists in your community, whether you recognize them or not.
Furthermore, HB2 does not just deal with the bathroom issue. Do you want this state to put in its Constitution the rest of the garbage in that bill? Are you really in favor of discriminating against LGBT people in employment, housing, etc. etc.? Do you want the minimum wage in large cities in NC to remain at the federal level of $7.25 as HB2 requires? Do you realize that because of HB2 employment discrimination suits can no longer be brought in NC courts, but only federal courts which are far slower and much more expensive to deal with.
Yes, I know how HB2 came about and even more details about what is contained in it.
Placing this on the ballot will only bring more negative attention to the State.
And the bill has a lot more in it that is ill thought out and bad for our State than bathrooms.
The simple and honorable fix is to repeal the bill and move forward.
If low taxes and lax regulations was the only incentive companies look to for busniess expansion then California would not be attracting record business expansion. Companies realize what NC GA refuse to see that enviroment and community are key to happy employees and successful business.
We need to reframe this discussion from a bathroom bill to a discrimination bill. As long as the Republicans can make it about bathrooms the narrow minded and uneducated will continue to buy into their safety and protection falsehood. It is amazing in this day that so many people give in to their fear and lack of human understanding. Sexuality like most of life is not black and white, not wrong or right.
Dean Vick is right regarding reframing from a public policy standpoint but I disagree about it having an impact on voters whose minds are firm now. HB2 was never about protection. It was always about discrimination because many right wingers just do not like gays, transgenders, etc. Re-framing might change the minds of a few fence sitters, but I am not sure that is enough to change the policy. Regardless of who votes on it, the GA or NC citizens, it is driven by ignorant bigotry. In fact, my positive regard for gay and transgender folks is driven mostly by the same ignorance as I do not know that many gay and no transgender people. I just know being different from me in sexuality is not enough to make someone bad.
and remember…transgender has nothing to do with sexuality, sexual attraction, etc. In fact, it has nothing to do with others…only how you identify your own gender (male/female) regardless of anatomy. The fact that pre-school children are able to passionately identify themselves as a specific gender shows us that this isn’t about sexuality at all. There is nothing for people to fear. The ‘safety’ issue is a red herring.
Huh? While you might find some local California press touting “increasing job growth” as an indicator of businesses choosing California, serious studies show businesses have been fleeing the state – especially manufacturing businesses – and the advertised job growth is mostly low-paid service sector jobs.
One highly regarded comprehensive study by Joseph Vranich, a site selection consultant based in California and reported in the Sacramento Business Journal last year, found that California lost 9,000 business headquarters and expansions between 2008 and 2014.
North Carolina was seventh on the list of states that these businesses chose over California (Texas was #1).
With a few exceptions, manufacturing jobs are declining all over this country — in fact, in most of the world. Simple explanation. It now takes fewer workers to make most products. I also would not consider 2008-2010 business expansion, etc numbers to be very useful given the state of the economy for the entire country. Had those years been excluded from this research, I would find it more convincing. Not doubting that companies chose TX or NC over California where taxes and salaries are lower, but it is clear that HB2 is impacting on the choices businesses and others are making about NC. Seems doubtful we will be #7 in the next survey.
Re: California, sure, you can highlight an obscure, countering source or two. And it’s also your choice to categorize the overwhelming number of studies, data, and positive reports as the “non-serious” efforts of “some local California press.” But in doing so, you would be ignoring, or trying to undermine, the truth. Poster Dean Vick is correct; California’s doing really well business-wise……
http://kedc.com/california-remains-no-1-for-business-and-job-growth/
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-capitol-business-beat-20150323-story.html
http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/8729-the-state-of-small-business-california.html
http://goldrushcam.com/sierrasuntimes/index.php/news/local-news/5910-center-for-business-and-policy-research-at-uop-finds-california-s-economy-maintaining-steady-3-percent-growth-for-several-years
So, the NCGA and Gov. McCrappy pass a horrible piece of legislation. Next, they come under withering criticism for being bigots. Instead of doing the courageous and moral thing and repeal this unconstitutional law, they want to put it up for a referendum. If it passes, they get the praise; if it fails, they blame the voters. Political Cowards and not worthy of our respect or votes.
What are they going to put up for a referendum next? Women’s right to vote, integration, the right to protest,………………………………….?
Takeaway: THESE PEOPLE CANNOT GOVERN