Politics is ugly and the bill that passed as a repeal of HB2 was proof. That said, it also helped the state move forward. The interest groups on both sides are vowing to keep the issue alive but they won’t be able to keep the momentum. Most of the state is just tired of hearing about it.
On the left, the Human Rights Campaign called on businesses and sporting events to keep up the boycott. They’re angry at Governor Roy Cooper and the Democrats who supported the bill. Several folks on social media are calling for primaries. One group planned an “airhorn orchestra” at the Governor’s Mansion. It’s the same protest they used against Pat McCrory.
On the right, the Values Coalition and Lt. Governor Dan Forest defended the law to the end. In their minds, HB2 was a good law that should stay on the books. Forest even went to Texas to urge that state to pass a similar law.
To hear some folks tell it, the repeal bill did little. That’s not true. It restores protections to workers and the LGBT community that HB2 took away. It also gives local governments more control over their relationships with contractors doing business with them.
Fifteen of the 16 local nondiscrimination ordinances that were in place prior to passing HB2 are back in effect. Charlotte’s ordinance is not because they repealed their NDO in the botched deal in December. Second, the bill allows transgender people to use the bathroom of their choice until the NCGA says otherwise. That’s the way most states operate–with no regulations. Third, local governments can require contractors to offer their employees to offer the same protections offered to government employees. Fourth, local governments can require contractors to set their minimum wages to mirror those of the local government.
The new bill bans new local nondiscrimination ordinances and prevents changes to ones in place for almost four more years. That our state legislative leaders would prevent local governments from offering protections for LGBT citizens is shameful. It’s bullying and more heavy-handed government from the party that claims to believe in less government.
The whole episode illustrates how much work needs to be done in North Carolina beyond state government. Only sixteen municipalities and counties have instituted nondiscrimination ordinances. How many of the other counties and towns in the state offer the protections available to their employees? Activists should be pressuring those governments to act now while the spotlight is hot.
Critics complain the deadline set by the NCAA spurred the sides to action. Loss of championship games certainly figured into the calculation but once the deadline passed, the urgency for action would have likely faded. We could well have settled into the situation South Carolina faced with its flag controversy.
Beginning in 2000, the NCAA and numerous businesses and conferences boycotted South Carolina because of its insistence on flying the Confederate battle flag on the state capitol grounds. While the initial debate drew national attention and riled protesters on both sides, the boycott and the flag stayed in place for fifteen years. Except for the occasional news story, there was little notice except among the activists who wanted the flag gone. It took a massacre to bring it down.
Politically, HB2 would likely have lost its punch once the high-profile deadlines passed. In the districts where Democrats need to win, the law doesn’t seem much of a factor anyway. It certainly didn’t sway voters in 2016 and it would probably have less impact in 2018. Cooper’s victory came because of a surge in urban areas, most of which now have protections again.
The compromise was painful and hurtful. The Democratic legislators I talked to struggled mightily. It was a very tough vote for people who voted for it and against it. To argue that the new law didn’t go far enough is fair, but to say it changed nothing is dishonest. People who live in places where nondiscrimination ordinances were passed now have those protections in place once again. Transgender people can use the bathroom of their choice. Local governments can force contractors to offer protections to their employees. That’s better than where we were when we woke up yesterday.
Until the rest of the bill is repealed, progress should come from pushing for protections for employees of local governments who don’t currently have them. If personnel policies can be changed in those areas, maybe legislators can be changed, too. That’s what it will take to enact the statewide nondiscrimination protections that our citizens deserve.
Thomas Mills is the founder and publisher of PoliticsNC.com. Before beginning PoliticsNC, Thomas spent twenty years as a political and public affairs consultant. Learn more >
Thank you. I grew weary of trying to respond, and appreciate the detailed information.
disgusted,
Your appraisal of the Republican Party is spot on. And why their gullible supporters continue to buy this claptrap is beyond me. Sadder still is the fact that probably most of these people mean well. Where did critical thinking go in this country?
disgusted,
This piece will give you some insight into why evangelicals can justify their love affair with our so-called Prez. It ain’t what they want you to believe.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2017/03/evangelicalism-returns-white-supremacist-roots/?utm_source=%5B%21%5D+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NL+Nonreligious&utm_content=15580
“How did Donald Trump — a thrice-married, biblically illiterate sexual predator — hijack the religious right?”
The article itself makes it clear that Trump didn’t “hijack” anything. His strategy was to affirm and exploit racist beliefs that evangelicalism has held since its inception.”
” This resonates with what I’ve said before, that no matter how much noise the religious right makes about same-sex marriage or abortion, at heart they don’t really care about them. Those issues were only important as boundary markers. (After all, they used to be equally fervent in their opposition to drinking booze and stores opening on Sunday.) What they care about is being in charge – defining a pure, righteous Us in opposition to a sinister Them, and then lobbying for laws that enshrine the special, privileged status of Us while keeping Them in their place.”
I think the only aspect of this behavior not clearly enunciated above is their unvarnished macho sexism. Along with putting people of color in “their place”, they certainly did not wish to see a woman as president following a black man. It would have added immeasurably to their sense of being wronged. In fact, I am not sure that Hillary Clinton would have survived being president. The hatred in conversations I overheard occasionally was shocking, and always, always denigrating toward women, just Hillary in particular. For them Trump is perfect; a rich sexual predator!
Is Paul the commentator who early on said that he was personally familiar with discrimination because he had been discriminated against for being a christian when he lived in MA, where that spawn of Satan Elizabeth Warren came from? If so, disagreeing with him is not fruitful because his argument is irrefutable. He got his knowledge from god, therefore it is the final word on the subject
Yup that’s me. I get my knowledge from God not god, you foefoervot to capitalize the word God.
Nice sarcasm, on Warren……yeah, she would be good for the future of Liberty should she ever get in the WH….
Correct you are, God does have the final word.
Good job!!!!!
Perhaps it’s time to ignore Paul and hope he will disappear from benign neglect.
disgusted on April 2, 2017 at 9:45 pm
It is amazing to read these folks who call themselves christians rant on about how it is perfectly OK to discriminate against a small segment of society, not because they have violated the law, or injured another, but fail to fit “their” definition of a “righteousness person”.
In a modern world, this is called bigotry and the persons who advocates it are called bigots.
The Bible says of a righteousness person “by their fruits ye shall know them.” “You can’t claim a child of God when you are committing adultery, living in fornication, stealing, cheating, etc”
I wonder which one of our current politicians possible could fit that description?
“but fail to fit “their” definition of a “righteousness person”.” Thats funny and shows your ignorance of the Christian faith. The criticism against the politically correct confusion called the LGBT movement., has absolutely nothing to do with :their” definition……it has to do with GODS DEFINITION of morals and righteousness.
Same thing when people like you accuse Christians for being so “intolerant” when they proclaim Jesus as being the ONLY WAY to heaven and all other “religions” as being false, when all they are doing is simply stating what the Bible has to say.
I advise you review the definition of “Bigotry” and see how it uses the word “intolerance” in its definition. Loving someone enough to tell them TRUTH is not intolerance, even though it may mean sharing uncomfortable Truths about how God feels about their lifestyle choices.
You wrote: “The Bible says of a righteousness person “by their fruits ye shall know them.”
Correct you are. I ask you tho think of what you wrote and then ask yourself what the “fruits” of those who choose a LGBT lifestyle.
I can hear you typing, “who are you to judge???? I am no one to judge, but, God will and all Christians are to do is proclaim the Truth of Gods word to warn a lost world to wale up and repent of their current pat and turn to the :Only name under heaven given to men in which they may be saved”
Could we please leave religion out of political discussions? There are religious people on both sides that (somehow) use the very same talking points. Diverting the discussion to the religious realm obfuscates and blurs the logic. Let’s stick to the rational and leave the supernatural to the theologians.
I respectfully disagree, as the topic at hand is a spiritual condition issue, (moral or religious issue) and politics and “religion” are very much relative to be discussed together, as both have, different but relevant implications on society.
No humor whatsoever in the Holocaust, you again are misunderstanding.
Your implications I found numerous.
What Hitler did was one of the most evil acts in human history, but, one needs to read how and what he did to condition the minds of those at that time, to “convince” them that murdering the Jews was a honorable thing.
This is what is happening today, things that used to be considered wrong for hundreds of years are not good, and anyone who speaks out against them are labeled intolerant. Until fairly recently, one could talk about the God of our heritage, the Bible, etc, but now those who do are attacked by the “tolerant” who are actually hypocritical because they show no tolerance. The definition of tolerance has changed.
If you read Jeffersons writings and how he used tax payer money to fund Christian missions schools, and printing of Bibles……I guess he must have forgot that he was mixing religion with government.
,your rant about the gun laws and required training, although with good intention, holds nothing as you cannot back up facts to prove your presupposition. Are criminals making bad judgements with guns?? Yes, everyday.
if what you said was really happening with legal law abiding gun owners, our society would be the wild west, but, with millions of guns being legally carried each day, the carnage that many presuppose…..does not exist.
So, you agree that murdering millions of people is wrong? Good, so do I.
Yet, you seem to believe that a man can “identify” as a woman, enter a woman’s bathroom or shower or changing room…..and this somehow does not cause you to question the logic and morality of such nonsensical confusion??????
Your comments about the “assault” rifles makes you sound like the gun hating liberals I grew up with criticizing legal gun owners, for owning such an “evil military style weapon or better yet calling it machine gun, lol!), citizens who have to go through background checks, and compare the carnage on the streets caused by lawless criminals to “untrained” citizens.
Show me the carnage of all the “untrained” law abiding legal gun owners…..it does not exist.
Trust me when I tell you, many citizens can out shoot most police, and I say that respectfully, but my life experience has proven that true, so although I agree that training is good, you equate a certain mentality and action with law abiding gun owners (ignorance, and no self control, etc) with a reality that does not exist on the public streets to the scale you perceive it to be.
Again, dig deep into the ones who created the Republic and study their writings, quotes, and thinking, and you will see that Natures God very much had a place in politics and government.
Paul, you have taken the art of rambling to new heights. Like most folks filled with the spirit of indignation, but handicapped by comprehension issues and mental discipline you find expression a real challenge.
I noted in one of your rants, you mentioned something about being able to hear me typing. In the spirit of that thought, do you hear other sounds, say voices? Perhaps, God speaks to you.
COME ON????? REALLY???? EVER HEARD OF METAPHORICAL?????
Perhaps God told you to make those childish statements about some “citizens” being able to out shoot police officers or liberals hating military style weapon.
AGAIN, LOL!!!! I HAD TO ADDRESS YOUR RANT ABOUT TRAINING AND SUPPOSED BAD BEHAVIOR BY LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS….
Some of your thoughts are rather questionable.
YOUR REASONING IS QUESTIONABLE, LOL!
There are folks out there that help you with these issues. I recommend you may want consider speaking with one.
AND WHAT ISSUES ARE THOSE EXACTLY????
What is with you folks that inspires you to label somebody who may disagree with you a liberal?
I LOVE THE ADDITION OF “YOU FOLKS”……THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HOW YOU VIEW ” YOU FOLKS” IN OTHER WORDS THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU…….AHHHHHH, MAYBE ITS BECAUSE I AM CONSERVATIVE????????????
Yes. Only replicating the format of those responding to me.
I am not a troll, I am trying to engage in challenging, logical, discussion, and you have taken the conversation down a long path.
You sound as though you are educated in a liberal learning center called a college,, you are clearly not a trump fan, and sorry the ” Not my president” statement I made was COMPLETELY misconstrued by you as meaning something different…
Life has treated me very well, thank you, the implications of your comments indicate that you are highly “educated” and do not only hate Christianity, but despise when someone starts mentioning morality, God, the Bible, etc.
You “doubt” that Jefferson never funded what I stated he did……..this statement shows that you are simply guessing at history and have not done the research. . Many young people today, having been lied to about history, “doubt” that the tragedy we call the Holocaust never occurred…….Let me reiterate, in case you do not misconstrue my statements like you have so consistently….
writing that you “doubt” this or that ever happened, shows your ignorance of the actual history being discussed.
You wrote: “Several folks have suggested you focus your comments to real issues. Nobody really cares to hear your confused religious views. I am sure there is a site out there that caters to such matters. Apparently, you fail to understand or do not really give a dam. This makes you nothing more then a internet troll.”
WOW! Your hatred for Trump and Christianity is very clear in these statements. No, YOU dont really care to hear Biblical religious views. YOU do not want to be confronted by Truth and logic. IF you are “educated” the plethora of degrees shoved in your cranium is not allowing critical thinking to take place.
Let me ask you this and I will go away:
Why do you not see anything wrong with a boy who was born that way, who decides to “IDENTIFY” as a girl, using the same bathrooms, changing rooms and showers as biological females who acknowledge the fact that they are female.?????
Please consider your answer carefully. It sounds like you could care less what the God of the Bible says…….and I have already heard the mantra of “equal rights”, so, please le t me know why you think that is a good thing to allow and something that is good for the long term health of a society???
OK, boss. And, Your comments remind me of a man that can quote the Bible, yet, still does not know what a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ is, rather is a “religious” person thinking their good works make them a good person.
No sir, I know exactly what it takes to be Holy…..being washed in the blood of the lord Jesus Christ is the only way to be Holy in the eyes of the God of heaven.
DITTO!
Wow! Now my “line of thinking” is considered to be dangerous and a threat? Lol! I advise you get into the founders writings and youvwill see that they mirrored my ” line of thinking” very often in the founding of this nation.
Your premise is that society makes the laws and rules, not God….or whatever…. Again, your lack of understanding of the founders writings is clear as well as the lack of any foundational principles of the Judeo/Christian principles intertwined in the founding of this nation.
Thats understandable, due to the removing of God and introducing revisionist history into our society, so that a generation or two are showing the results of propaganda that is critical to our heritage.
Your reference to the holocaust are disturbingly humorous, as that is exactly what is happening to those who dare to use their 1st Amendment right to free speech, to voice their opinion on certain issues…… Are being silenced……goes to show how “tolerant” those are who have their views or lifestyle challenged by Biblical principles, kind of like you saying I am “shoving my views down your throat”, lol!!!! But the lgbt community does no such thing, and is all about tolerance, right??????
Oh, forgot to mention…..your diatribe is very revealing…..I was saying to myself, this person sounds like an anti self defense, anti gun, pacifist, that love the Constitution for how it can fit into your world view……but that dang (evil) 2nd Amendment….. Well, that has to go.
Your concluding statements were very revealing. Very sad that our society is being brainwashed against perhaps as the most important amendment, one in which, if it it taken away, then according to the founders, history, and logic, opens the door for rogue government and tyrannical practices.
Well Paul, as you can see I’ve assembled a few of your comments across the length of this discussion. Since you like to copy and paste, I thought I’d address your comments and thoughts in this manner; prevents misquoting and allows staying on track with regard to which comment I’m talking about.
Paul, you wrote, “Thats funny and shows your ignorance of the Christian faith. The criticism against the politically correct confusion called the LGBT movement., has absolutely nothing to do with :their” definition……it has to do with GODS DEFINITION of morals and righteousness.”
So just for the tally book, what is “Gods’ definition” Paul?
Paul, you wrote, “Same thing when people like you accuse Christians for being so “intolerant” when they proclaim Jesus as being the ONLY WAY to heaven and all other “religions” as being false, when all they are doing is simply stating what the Bible has to say.”
That would be your belief. You have every right to believe it, talk about it to those that want to listen to it, and study it. What you don’t have the right to do is foist that belief onto someone else who has the same exact right to their own beliefs. Regardless of what the Bible has to say. And by the way, which version of the Bible do you subscribe to? There are several you know and the word of God varies among them.
Paul, you wrote, “Wow! Now my “line of thinking” is considered to be dangerous and a threat? Lol! I advise you get into the founders writings and youvwill see that they mirrored my ” line of thinking” very often in the founding of this nation.”
I’m not so sure your dangerous or a threat. Your writing demonstrates a modicum of ignorance and a lack of understanding of your own belief system and any perspective or opinion that is not in line with your own. What do I mean by that? “Your” line of thinking may be appropriate to the mid -18th Century, it’s hardly relevant today. The founding fathers, intellectual and far-sighted as they were to draft such a glorious document as our Constitution, were still slave holders (many of them) and many were engaged in acts of criminal activity such a smuggling. They weren’t perfect. Neither are we. Neither are you.
Paul, you wrote, “Your premise is that society makes the laws and rules, not God….or whatever…. Again, your lack of understanding of the founders writings is clear as well as the lack of any foundational principles of the Judeo/Christian principles intertwined in the founding of this nation.”
It’s not a premise, it’s a fact. Western law may be grounded in Judeo-Christian more and tradition, but what was the first codified set of rules for a society? Code of Hammurabi. Written at a time when the Torah was still being passed down in oral tradition. The codex also pre-dates the Torah by approximately 1,000 years.
Paul, you wrote, “.I was saying to myself, this person sounds like an anti self defense, anti gun, pacifist, that love the Constitution for how it can fit into your world view……but that dang (evil) 2nd Amendment….. Well, that has to go.”
Let’s see, what was that passage again? Ah yes, “pound your swords into plowshares.” Um, who was it that said that again?
Paul, you wrote, “…our society is being brainwashed against perhaps as the most important amendment, one in which, if it it taken away, then according to the founders, history, and logic, opens the door for rogue government and tyrannical practices.”
You’re not far off plumb here. That brainwashing is how I rationalize we ended up with Donald Trump in the White House. Although I’m sure that isn’t the type and kind of brainwashing you were eluding to.
Aha!!!!!!! You wrote and responded exactly the way i through you would.
Thank you very much.
Well Paul, as you can see I’ve assembled a few of your comments across the length of this discussion. Since you like to copy and paste, I thought I’d address your comments and thoughts in this manner; prevents misquoting and allows staying on track with regard to which comment I’m talking about.
Paul, you wrote, “Thats funny and shows your ignorance of the Christian faith. The criticism against the politically correct confusion called the LGBT movement., has absolutely nothing to do with :their” definition……it has to do with GODS DEFINITION of morals and righteousness.”
So just for the tally book, what is “Gods’ definition” Paul?
OPEN A BIBLE AND LOOK FOR YOURSELF, ITS REVEALED ALL THROUGH SCRIPTURE
Paul, you wrote, “Same thing when people like you accuse Christians for being so “intolerant” when they proclaim Jesus as being the ONLY WAY to heaven and all other “religions” as being false, when all they are doing is simply stating what the Bible has to say.”
That would be your belief. You have every right to believe it, talk about it to those that want to listen to it, and study it. What you don’t have the right to do is foist that belief onto someone else who has the same exact right to their own beliefs. Regardless of what the Bible has to say. And by the way, which version of the Bible do you subscribe to? There are several you know and the word of God varies among them.
AND THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF THOSE SHOVING THEIR LIFESTYLE DOWN THE THROATS OF ALL AND DEMANDING THAT LAWS BE CHANGED AND THAT WE “TOLERATE” IT AND TO KEEP OUR MOUTHS SHUT AND NOT SPEAK AGAINST IT….. NO SIR, I AM GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF THIS KIND OF HYPOCRISY AND “IN-TOLERANCE” AND WILL NOT SHUT UP.
Paul, you wrote, “Wow! Now my “line of thinking” is considered to be dangerous and a threat? Lol! I advise you get into the founders writings and youvwill see that they mirrored my ” line of thinking” very often in the founding of this nation.”
I’m not so sure your dangerous or a threat. Your writing demonstrates a modicum of ignorance and a lack of understanding of your own belief system and any perspective or opinion that is not in line with your own. What do I mean by that? “Your” line of thinking may be appropriate to the mid -18th Century, it’s hardly relevant today. The founding fathers, intellectual and far-sighted as they were to draft such a glorious document as our Constitution, were still slave holders (many of them) and many were engaged in acts of criminal activity such a smuggling. They weren’t perfect. Neither are we. Neither are you.
NEVER SAID THEY WERE PERFECT OR THAT I AM, JUST SAYING THEY CREATED A republic OF SELF GOVERNMENT THAT HAS MADE THE USA A BEACON OF HOPE, LIBERTY, AND OPPORTUNITY THE WORLD OVER.
THEY WERE FAR SMARTER THAN YOU AND I WILL EVER BE, I ASSURE YOU OF THAT, YET YOU HAVE THE GAUL TO CALL THE CONSTITUTION AN ANTIQUATED, IRRELEVANT DOCUMENT….WOW! YOUR THINKING IS THE REASON WE ARE IN TROUBLE.
YOUR COMMENTS OF THE IRRELEVANCY OF CONSTITUTION IN THESE “MODERN AGE” OF ENLIGHTENMENT REVEALS MUCH….
Paul, you wrote, “Your premise is that society makes the laws and rules, not God….or whatever…. Again, your lack of understanding of the founders writings is clear as well as the lack of any foundational principles of the Judeo/Christian principles intertwined in the founding of this nation.”
It’s not a premise, it’s a fact. Western law may be grounded in Judeo-Christian more and tradition, but what was the first codified set of rules for a society? Code of Hammurabi. Written at a time when the Torah was still being passed down in oral tradition. The codex also pre-dates the Torah by approximately 1,000 years.
YOU MISUNDERSTAND TRANSCRIPTION AND THE VALIDITY OF ORAL TRADITION OF THE ANCIENT WORLD. YOU MAY WANT TO DO A STUDY ON TEXTURAL CRITICISM.
Paul, you wrote, “.I was saying to myself, this person sounds like an anti self defense, anti gun, pacifist, that love the Constitution for how it can fit into your world view……but that dang (evil) 2nd Amendment….. Well, that has to go.”
Let’s see, what was that passage again? Ah yes, “pound your swords into plowshares.” Um, who was it that said that again?
COMMENTS FROM SOMEONE WHO DOES KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD “CONTEXT”
Paul, you wrote, “…our society is being brainwashed against perhaps as the most important amendment, one in which, if it it taken away, then according to the founders, history, and logic, opens the door for rogue government and tyrannical practices.”
You’re not far off plumb here. That brainwashing is how I rationalize we ended up with Donald Trump in the White House. Although I’m sure that isn’t the type and kind of brainwashing you were eluding to.
AHHHHH…..I WAS WAITING FOR THE ANTI-TRUMP COMMENTS
Paul, you are not being asked to “shut up” — you are being asked to be tolerant of others who think differently from you. You are being asked to move past your own bias and consider facts that have not apparently been part of your education and/or life up to now. For example, the Constitution was designed to allow for people to adhere to different religions and specifically forbids government interference in that choice. That is both fact and has been supported over two centuries of legal interpretation.
Most of the Founding Fathers were not “Christian” in the formal sense that we think of that today. Two Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians: Thomas Jefferson,[47], who constructed the Jefferson Bible, and Benjamin Franklin. Other, including Adams, Madison, and Washington are generally considered to believe in some form of what was then called “rationalism.”
Your comments are hostile to anyone who does not share your thinking. It is clear that you feel deeply about these issues, but so do others. I do not think you are ignorant or stupid, but it is hard to listen to you when you judge and claim to do so in the name of religion. Some of us have also read the Bible. Somehow I cannot see Jesus as stoning or banishing anyone for their sexual choices, no matter what is in the Old Testament.
Good points, but you still need to read more founding history to see the place that Biblical principles had in the foundations of this nation no matter what the personal convictions of founders.
Since you are a student of history, I am sure you are aware that Jefferson approved tax payer money to support Christian missionaries, Christian schools and even the printing of the Bible??? Funny how that is not mentioned (among many other facts) when history of this great nation is discussed.
I am being called hostile, for speaking out against a moral issue all in the name of free speech???? yet there is no hostility when folks speak out against Christians, or when lawsuits are made towards Christians who are expressing their viewpoint or convictions, yet they are FORCED to submit to the opposing viewpoint…..doesn’t sound very tolerant to me.
Y’all need to look in the mirror.
Your wrote: “Some of us have also read the Bible. Somehow I cannot see Jesus as stoning or banishing anyone for their sexual choices, no matter what is in the Old Testament.”
This is the problem today, you have created God in your own image, an image that is safe, no sin, no judgement, etc. This is a lie from the devil, because although Gos is loving and merciful, he is also a holy, righteous judge who hates sin, and because of who he is, has to judge sin.
please read you Bible again. This “Jesus” whom you cannot see banishing those for sexual choices, is not the politically correct “Jesus” that accepts all without bekonoing them to repoent………no, the Jesus of the Bible, is more than just a merciful savior, he is also a Holy righteous judge that will most assuredly judge sin, and sexual sins at that.
The Bible (OT & NT) have MUCH to say about sexual choices and the coming judgement on those who do not repent of their rebellion towards God and turn to “the only name under heaven which man may be saved”
Now, I can see all you getting all angry at what I just said….and calling me hostile, intolerant, a hater, etc.
Please save your energy ,but keep in mind, its not my thoughts, it is what the bible proclaims.
I believe you’re right Dis.
Notice how Paul attributed things I never wrote as things that I had to comment on? If it doesn’t fit what you’re wanting to re-butt with, just make it up.
Notice how he dodges and twists on the things he doesn’t want to answer…or can’t?
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Lol! Classic by a “not my president” Trump hater who realizes they cannot logically communicate and address certain truths, resorts to blaming Trump for everything
You are the one that needs a mental check up…..
You also constantly mis-quote what I write, so that tells me you do not comprehend my subtle references to certain principles and truths in my writng. They are subtle for a reason, but evidently you are missing them, by responding to me and Mis -quotng what I actually wrote.Where did I ever say Trump is not the president???? that is ludicrous, and leads me to believe that you need some reading training, or a mental check up or at the very least a pair of reading glasses!!! Come on!!!!
Troy, shame on you. I am not dodging twisting or avoiding, please learn how to read, and try not to slow your bias to cloud your comments.
I have asked many questions and made many comments, that were also “dodged and twisted” and were not addressed,……funny how you don’t notice and bring those up.
Really Paul? Asked me questions? What questions did you ask of me? And then shame on me? Why? Other than ask you a few clarifying questions with regard to your beliefs and understanding (questions which went unanswered by the way) and point out some inconsistencies in your dogmatic thinking, what did I do? You’re the one that landed here and proceeded to tell everyone that we’re wrong. But, that’s all I can do is ask. I can then explain based on any questions you have of me. I just can’t understand it for you. I’ll also add that if you don’t want to hear the answers, don’t bother asking.
My reading comprehension is quite good; heck I can even do numbers without a calculator. I even have the ability of explaining things without the need of resorting to the classic “SAY IT LOUDER SO THEY’LL UNDERSTAND.”
The characteristics of your writing says much however. That’s a real shame too. While holding a different viewpoint, the discussion here could have remained cogent, civil, and respected among the various participants. But you have no interest in listening or discussion. You only want to tell everyone else why they’re wrong, you’re right, and how you will not have your ‘speech’ suppressed. Knock yourself out. Every time you do, it reflects negatively on you and what you believe and are trying to convey. So by all means, please continue.
Dude, learn how to read before you start go on a nonsensical, diatribe accusing me etc, etc, etc
I know my comments make you crazy, so take a breath calm down an re-read, I never said I asked YOU questions, I was making a general comment about questions being asked and not answered:
“I have asked many questions and made many comments, that were also “dodged and twisted” and were not addressed,……funny how you don’t notice and bring those up”
Many of y’all seem to have a real challenge being able to ascertain the meaning of verbiage in a paragraph.
Look for YOUR post here, it may clarify things for you .
Troy on April 4, 2017 at 6:53 pm
And my response post here:
Paul on April 4, 2017 at 10:07 pm
God forbid I copy and paste the actual comments, as more critical rambling on how I copy and paste will ensue.
That’s right I said shame on you for mid representation of comments.
Sorry to hurt your snowflake feelings and self esteem.
You are taking my opinions and comments way too personal, and I can see that you are easily offended, and you can’t handle anything that is negative and may entertain the possibility that you are wrong, and an alternative viewpoint may in fact be the Truth, and in alignment with the precepts of the Creator God.
Pathetic Paul. Sidestep and try to turn it back…all the time referencing yourself to prove your own point.
Next time you have a thought, just let it go. I’ll understand.
Troy, Troy, Troy….there you go again!!!please stop!!!!! You continue to respond with nonsensical rambling, not even remotely addressing or intelligently responding to my comments!!!
Why do you make debate and discussion so exhaustingly difficult.
It worked, We’re done. Peace out.
Apparently asking questions that, if lucid answers were provided, would clarify and explain certain positions in postings is the secret to troll eradiction we’ve been missing Dis. Who’d uh thunk it?!?!
I know. But the thing is this. I was watching a late show last night and one of the ‘correspondents’ was at a Trump rally in Wisconsin talking to different people. The captivating moment was when a Trump supporter stated quite sincerely, “I don’t like Obama. He’s always on vacation; he’s always gone. He was gone during the 9/11 attacks.”
The interviewer said, “What do you think about that?”
To which the Trump supporter replied, “I dunno; but we need to investigate to find out where he was.”
I’m paraphrasing since I didn’t record and transcribe that conversation, but that was the gist of it. My point here is, how do you debate that? How do you rationally explain to someone who has that notion firmly implanted that 9/11 happened eight years before Obama went to the White House? And I understand these folks were tired of being talked down to. This is certainly not a credible or illustrative example of the majority of people on the right and far right. This guy however did represent a segment of that population however. A population that is strong enough in numbers that it put a Meglomaniac in the White House and kept a few more in the number two seat of the Executive branch and the other two in the House and Senate respectively.
Like you, I find it utterly incredulous that someone would vote against their own wallet, their own family, and their own prosperity; but they did. Great numbers of Trump supporters live from hand to mouth and they voted; not just for him, but the others who enable him.
Obviously belittling doesn’t work. Nor does shaming, cajoling, or ridicule. The premise of vetting candidates as many here advocate is of little to no consequence. A vast number of people only seek out sources which already agree with their own perspectives.
I didn’t grow up here either but I’ve spent the majority of my adult life here. What you’re referencing from your political science classes and hearing while you were out doing grip and grins for your candidate is nothing unusual. Southerners are very surreptitious about their politics, truth be told. As a trained Social Scientist (by education, not vocation) it is fascinating to learn what is really in peoples’ minds and how that runs counter to what we have heretofore held as being passe.
Their fears, prejudices, and bigotry are revealed for the world via the ballot box. So all those things that we thought we had conquered and dispensed with as a nation are still there, lying just under the surface, waiting for some thing to happen that will allow them to bubble to the surface.
Maybe that is as good a place as any to start looking for answers.
That is my take on it, also, and very well said!
It’s amusing but not really surprising that when a Democratic Governor signs a bill that is at odds with the LGBT agenda, how quickly mainstream liberals like Mr. Mills are willing to abandon the political agenda of their (former?) allies.
People are multi-faceted beings as much as they are social and political. As such, interests and passions are varied. To ignore this or that issue doesn’t make it go away; it merely serves to augment the opposing view. Of course, are there things that don’t belong in the public domain that debated? There are. But since this discussion took the turn toward individual rights, I’ll add my thoughts.
Should LGBT or abortion rights be in the fore? No, they shouldn’t be. But not for the reasons heretofore presented. Abortion rights were decided by the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade. Whether the Republicans agree or not. They’ve worked frantically ever since in an attempt to subvert that decision. They’ve made it a plank in their platform. LGBT shouldn’t be in the forefront of political discourse either. Every member of every legislative body of this country, on every level takes an oath of office to support, defend, and ABIDE by the United States Constitution. Who we choose to associate ourselves with, live, love, or cohabitate with shouldn’t be a matter of public discourse or debate. But laws are crafted very skillfully and narrowly in order to deny a specific group of people those freedoms. Freedoms we would ordinarily consider so fundamental and basic that they are foundational in concept, denial never enters the conversation; as long as you’re part of the mainstream. These debates and struggles are engaged upon on a level completely different from our social contract with government. The denials and restrictions come on the basis of a belief. Mosaic more and tradition. Biblical prohibition and commandment. In other words, Christian Sharia law. Here in North Carolina, a law was finally repealed after a year of strife. A year of national and international scrutiny and debasement on the whole of the citizens of this State. It drew support from the Republican base on the basis of protecting women and children from predators; a protection that was given no premise on which to enforce the law. The point being is that it took a year to do away with something that should have never been done at all. This was a slap at the City of Charlotte for having the audacity to defy the General Assembly as a political subdivision and pass a law the majority caucus found offensive to their beliefs structure. It will likewise be the rallying cry and banner of 2020 GOP candidate for Governor, Dan Forest.
That is the sleight of hand (policy) to keep attention diverted away from a covert agenda and to attract support for other policies that are even more extreme. Republicans, for the most part, have always been a minority party among the people. Now they enjoy power and control. Power which they have known only a few times across the last one hundred years. Through processes like gerrymandered districts, constant social policy strife, voter ID laws, and a perpetual pandering to a minority of citizens but a majority of their supporters, it is their intent, to make themselves the single party of American politics. A single political party system with carte blanche and no checks or balances to stop them. That is the thing we have most to fear in this Country and State at this point in our history.
Couple that reality with the fact we are staring at the real potential that a foreign power put its own candidate in control of our Country. All that we know or knew is unsteady and wobbly until this matter is addressed and resolved. For the first time in our history we are confronted with the possibility that the President may not hold the office legitimately. The implications of that alone are staggering.
When I relocated from the liberal progressive New England to the great state of North Carolina 3+ years ago, as a conservative, NC felt like a different country from where I came from.
But then the nonsensical battle over what bathroom or shower one can use based on what sexual identity they “identify” with reared its ugly head, and political correctness all in the name of “equal rights” was shoved down my throat and reminded me of the confusion and depravity.
That which I fled was all of a sudden an issue in the conservative, Bible belt state of NC,
I have personally seen the long term damage of what y’all voted to repeal, can and WILL do to the moral health of a society that welcomes everything all in the name “civil rights”
When the rapes, assaults, and perversions begin, you will have only to look in the mirror and contemplate the decisions you have made.
I have seen the damage to liberty and conservative values, values that have made this nation the greatest on earth…..that politicians like you have created. I thought I was leaving weak, liberal, progressive, politically correct politicians behind in New England….I guess I was mistaken.
Shame on all who voted to repeal. Looks like money is the “god” of NC
Paul,
Nothing personal, but why did you move to the “liberal bastion” of NC? And, do you think you would be more empathetic if you were on the receiving end of discrimination?
Hello sir, thank you for your response and questions. To quote the Alan Jackson song, ‘Where I Come From” NC certainly did not look like a ‘Liberal Bastion”. It still is not, but I see things are a changing…..
Perhaps all the liberal bankers relocating here are bringing the liberal mentality of the areas they moved from…
As far as being on the receiving end of discrimination…yes, sir, I have experienced it up close and personal growing up as a Christian in Hampshire County, Mass. ( Where Elizabeth Warren calls home) and I did not whine about it and try to change the laws to cater to my beliefs……..although my Christian beliefs are far more in alignment with the history and heritage of this once great nation, far more than the LGBT confusion and political correctness that seems to have arrived on the scene and is spreading like cancer.
Good Job! (compromise)
It titillates my perverse frequently sick sense of humor to watch all the people who are adamant that they are right and you-all are wrong, on both sides! Do they want to shoot everyone who disagrees with them? Who gets to be the shooters and who the “shootees” ? Just saying.
Great point. If you looked to the God of heaven as the moral standard of what is right and what is wrong, you would not be so confused and titillated about watching the debate over absolute morals and relative morals, and how one thinks that how one “feels” or “identifies” can change moral absolutes, it does not.
Thank you for putting the “repeal” in perspective, Tom. I think you maintain the best blog on NC politics. As a gay North Carolinian, I was extremely disappointed with the “compromise” that prevents our localities from adding protections for their beloved communities until 2020. However, it was probably the best that could be done at this juncture. Our senior member of the House from Durham, Mickey Michaux, explained his YES vote by saying that he wanted to be sure that Roy Cooper gets reelected. Roy campaigned on doing something about HB2. He was not going to get a clean repeal. Many North Carolinians likely think that a cooling off period was a reasonable compromise and Roy would have gotten the blame for getting in the way. The buck tends to stop with the governor as Pat McCrory found out. Out local ordinances are back in effect, serving as examples for other localities that do not yet have such provisions. However, if the NCAA chooses to find the 3.5 year moratorium unacceptable, that would be a good thing. No tournament or championship games until after 2020. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Thanks, Eric.
What a great and sensible ‘compromise’!!
“HB2: The NC Legislature repealed a BAD law for the WRONG reason and called it GOOD government.”
I am not sure why you said that but it was a good of a bill that the state could get. It is my hope now we can put this issue behind us and move on to more important issues.
You may be right about as good as the state can do, but that is a sad commentary on NC. As for “more important issues”, I wonder what can possibly be more essential to people than being treated equally. Yes, essential economic well being and safety may come first, but it is precisely those two that are so often lacking for those this society discriminates against.
I also wonder how many will compromise when the next anti-abortion legislation comes up? Will the response be, well, this is the best this state can do? And where will Gov. Cooper be at that point?
There is nothing to applaud in this outcome. It hurt many people, unlike the original Charlotte ordinance or HB2.
Correction: sorry, but I deleted a last sentence as I was writing that ended in “or HB2” and did not realize that I had left those two words connected to the prior sentence and the Charlotte ordinance. It is definitely not my view that HB2 did not harm people. It did.
Norma
When you are in the minority as we Democrats are now getting anything passed is going to take deal making and lots of give and take. That is what elected bodies are all about anyway. It is a question of priorities. You may favor both but the reality is you lucky if you can get either housing or gay rights passed. But I order to one passed you have to let the other go. You may not like it but that is the way it is. I wonder which you would choose.
Some of you will just have to wait and see. But abortion rights and gay rights are not the reasons I became Democrat. For most of my life the Democrats did not like touching those two issues. I am not sure a lot still like touching those issues. My advice to everyone here is to leave them alone I am of the opinion the voting public has had enough of those issues for now. Try to find issues the public identifis. Economice growth is always a great place. The cost of housing and education are close also. Of course you can try to fighting the fight. But don’t be disappointed if not a lot of folks join you.
I am a part of the “public” as are my female friends, my gay friends, my many relatives of all sexual orientations, my colleagues and my neighbors. I know only ONE person who believes that avoiding the issues of abortion rights or LGBT rights is a wise or honorable course for a politician or a political party that wants their support.
Also, leaving these hard issues alone is a pretty obvious cop-out when those running for office, and fools no one, I think.
Yes, the economy matters, but why would you consider that to exclude my rights or those of LGBT people? Or the need for improved education to exclude teaching our children and students that discrimination is both wrong and economically damaging since it excludes many who are smart and capable? As for housing, if an elected official cares about housing costs for the lower part of the economic spectrum, I am happy, but that will not stop me from judging what they do on other issues.
Most of us are capable of keeping more than one issue in our thinking as we evaluate the position(s) of a person running for office or a political party. We don’t have to think in “either/or” terms.
I reserve the right to vote for Cooper as I did, while feeling certain that he would make exactly the choice he did.
The creation of open and loving communities that are nurturing to us all is an exceedingly important issue. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you are referring to bathrooms which were simply a ruse to do more harm.