The rancor over House Bill 2 is no longer about bathrooms or anti-discrimination ordinances or minimum wages. It’s now all about politics. Dueling protests fire up the bases of both parties. Yesterday, 700 people showed up at the Capitol to cheer on Pat McCrory, Dan Forest and legislative leaders who support the bill.
I can’t wait to see what the Moral Monday movement has in store for the legislative session that starts in a couple of weeks. I know what their message will be, though: Take Back North Carolina and Stop Discrimination. They won’t expect action on House Bill 2 or to accomplish anything legislatively. They will expect to keep their partisans engaged until the election in November.
In 2014, the outrage that spurned the Moral Monday movement didn’t “take back” North Carolina for progressives, but it did probably influence the election. While most the country was hit by a massive GOP wave, North Carolina Democrats fared better. Kay Hagan may have lost her seat, but it was just by a hair and Thom Tillis had no coattails. North Carolina was one of the only states in the nation where Democrats picked up legislative seats.
The outrage sparked by House Bill 2 will almost certainly be at play during the election. It reminded progressives of everything bad they believe Republicans have done over the past three years. It will help recruitment of volunteers and gives them a rallying cry for the fall. If Bernie’s not on the ticket to excite young people, maybe HB2 will keep them engaged.
The conservative base is far more reliable that the progressive base. However, they stayed home in 2008. With the possibility of a Donald Trump candidacy, they might be tempted to do so again. House Bill 2 might keep them engaged and help focus the election on local issues when national ones will be otherwise driving the campaign.
My guess is that, politically, House Bill 2 will benefit Democrats more than Republicans. While it might shore up the Republican base, it will alienate a lot of suburbanites who don’t care that much about social issues but will likely take notice of the loss of revenue. If Republicans nominate Trump or Ted Cruz, HB2 just makes it that much easier for them to pull a Democratic lever.
Thomas Mills is the founder and publisher of PoliticsNC.com. Before beginning PoliticsNC, Thomas spent twenty years as a political and public affairs consultant. Learn more >
Wow, D.g, you’ve devoted another post exclusively to my views? I guess I should be flattered, particularly after you just posted a claim that I am not a serious contributor to these discussions.
I’ll just respond to your latest partisan spin by saying it seems that any group that doesn’t agree with your far left opinion is, in your eyes, a “hate” group. I realize YOU HATE organizations that promote conservative policies, but that doesn’t mean they’re “hate” groups.
http://www.greensboro.com/news/north_carolina_ap/federal-judge-upholds-north-carolina-photo-id-mandate/article_c18b980c-14e6-5080-bf51-ed1188f163d6.html
Then there is this more common type of sexual predator: the wrestling coach or the priest or the scout troop leader or the church youth director. Sometimes, like Dennis Hastert, they go on to positions of prestige & power.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hastert-groin-rub
“trans person,” not “grand person.” Damn autocorrect.
Ebrun, can you point to a single incident of a grand person being arrested for sexual misconduct in a bathroom?
Here are three Republican politicians who were.
http://deadstate.org/more-gop-politicians-have-been-arrested-for-sexual-misconduct-in-bathrooms-than-trans-people/
It’s not trans that will cause the problems, it predators posing as trans. Under the Charlotte ordinance, any male predator could access any female facility without having to go undercover. And there are plenty of male predators around that could take advantage of such liberalized access.
Can you point to a single instance of this happening?
Seriously.
Seriously, can you?
Or is it even less frequent than voter fraud?
Or than Republican politicians being arrested in bathrooms?
There are numerous instances of convictions of male sexual predators, disguised as women, who accessed women’s restrooms for sexually deviant purposes. In most of these cases, it was illegal for them to enter female facilities. Under proposed liberalized access for trans genders, there would be nothing illegal about their presence in a predominately female locker room or bathroom unless and until they committed an illegal sexual act.
Well, yes i can, Anon. While there are few jurisdictions in the U.S that have ordinances that demand equal access to what were heretofore gender specific facilities, there is a similar ordinance in effect in the state of Washington. If you watch the video below to the end, you will see referenced three examples of what I referred to—male sexual predators or perverts using transgender access regulations to harass women in female dominated facilities.
Point counter point. Please name the sources of your two videos. http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/12/video-heres-truth-about-anti-lgbt-bathroom-predator-myth/209862
The video that included cases from Washington state was uploaded to You Tube by Lt. Governor Dan Forest or his staff. The other video was uploaded by a person named Jane Williams. Don’t know anything else about her. She may just be a concerned citizen with no particular organizational affiliation.
The MediaMatters release makes many unsubstantiated claims, but does not challenge or even comment on any of the specific cases shown in the other videos.
Actually, the Washington case has been debunked. It was a straight male who entered the facility wearing a tshirt, board shorts and sandals. He did it because he thought Washington state had changed it’s 10 year law but they didn’t. He only removed his shirt and was promptly asked to leave the facility. His excuse that he “felt like a woman” didn’t work. It was purely a publicity stunt and nothing more. He was escorted out of the facility.
Debunked, by whom? Can you cite your source?
What a foolish rejoinder, D,g. . The Charlotte ordinance never went into effect, so we will never know its impact in NC, but we can learn what happened where a similar policy was implemented. The other video shows the danger male predators can pose to women using public facilities. The Charlotte ordinance would have made it much EASIER, as it did in the state of Washington, for this type of predator to threaten women using public bath and locker room facilities.
What impact would it have had in NC? Who would really want to find out? The NCGA obviously views HB2 as a preemptive measure.
Sorry, D.G., but conservatives are in charge of state government now. Democrats had their turn for almost 20 years and their only major accomplishment was to raise state sales and income taxes.
Under the GOP, taxes have been cut, education reforms are being instituted, school choice has been enhanced by allowing more charter schools and through Opportunity Scholarships and yes, separate gender specific rest rooms and locker rooms are state policy for public schools and other public facilities.
You can gripe and moan and whine about it all you want, that’s you’re free speech right. You can call Republicans every nasty name in the book, attribute evil intentions to them and work for their electoral defeat, In the meantime, conservative policies are being shown to work.
For those who are less than knowledgable about how state government works, it should be pointed out to them that NC has a weak executive, strong legislative structure. In other words, the Governor has few powers except those allowed him by the General Assembly.
So the Governor really can’t void any of the provisions of HB2. His Executive Order, however a good approach, applies to state government employment only. The Governor can recommend and even urge the General Assembly to modify HB2, but he has no power to mandate it be done.
So the Governor’s EO and accompanying statement will probably take some heat off, but it is purely symbolic. The final decision rests with the General Assembly.
Ebrun,
Despite our differences, I do believe in being fair. The above was very well written; spot on in my view. The best the Governor could hope to do is not enforce it, but then, there was no enforcement provisio included.
I appreciate that. Thanks for the complement.
D.G., have you read the Governor’s order? Specifically, Section 6 says, in effect, that the Governor supports and urges the GENERAL ASSEMBLY (emphasis added) to reinstate a state cause of action in employment discrimination law suits.
That’s not the precise language as the Governor’s web site would not allow me to copy and paste. But its clear that he was asking the General Assembly to restore employment discrimination lawsuits in state courts. He can’t do it by himself.
THe Governor can’t change state law. The Courts can declare it unconstitutional, but that would have nothing to do with the Governor’s EO.
Dg, about three paragraphs of your BS is all anyone should have to be exposed to at one time. As I have told over and over again, brevity can greatly improve your communication skills, an area in which you are obviously lacking.
NC governors have veto power. And they’ve got a bully pulpit. Good ones know how to use. This governor doesn’t.
Thank goodness. There are enough bullies trying to tell our General Assembly what to do.
Maybe the legislators should stop trying to tell locally elected governments what to do. Stop taking away their airports & water systems & zoning & land use regs, & dictating their voting districts, as in Greensboro.
These legislators are bullies who don’t like anyone calling them on it.
Out of cogent arguments again, D.g.? Resort to default position– Name calling and personal insults. You’re SOP.
“If there were a Darwin Award for states, North Carolina would win hands down.”
Kathleen Parker, https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bigotry-raises-its-hideous-head-in-north-carolina/2016/04/12/0093a590-00fd-11e6-b823-707c79ce3504_story.html
Self-descfibed “mostly right of center.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Parker
HB2 has support from most of the state’s traditional church leaders plus support from law enforcement via the NC Sheriff’s Association. That’s a pretty substantial coalition that will be hard to defeat in the General Assembly or beat in the November elections.
“Inept & feckless”
“After listening to people’s feedback for the past several weeks on this issue, I have come to the conclusion that there is a great deal of misinformation, misinterpretation, confusion, a lot of passion and frankly, selective outrage and hypocrisy, especially against the great state of North Carolina,” McCrory said in a statement. “Based upon this feedback, I am taking action …”
In other words, I’m giving in to “misinformation, misinterpretation, confusion, a lot of passion and frankly, selective outrage and hypocrisy” … & doing something that will satisfy no one on any side of this dispute & anger everyone.
This man is I slept & feckless. He can’t do anything right.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article71368717.html#storylink=cpy
Those on the left whose job it is to practice over spin must envy Mr. Mills, who is an obvious master over spinner. One might wonder if he smokes an illegal substance to help conjure up such fantasies or does he just put on his rose-colored glasses to help him see the world like he would like it to be.
But it’s doubtful that calling out the Moral Majority movement from its moribund state will be much help to the left in regaining power in NC. Admittedly, the Reverend Barber is an equal opportunity demagogue, but he could barely move the public opinion needle in ’13-’14 with his vitriolic cries of racism against the GOP. The specter of Bully Barber leading an outraged band of leftists to successfully garner public support for transgender bathroom access should strain the imagination of even the most optimistic liberal.
And Mr. Mills analysis of recent NC political history also seems somewhat revisionist. In 2014, Democrats picked up 2 or 3 state House seats and lost one seat in the state Senate, an incumbent U.S Senator and all but three of the state’s Congressional delegation. To claim that the Moral Majority movement prevented a GOP wave ignores the fact that the GOP waves in NC in 2010 and 2012 maxed-out Republican legislative strength across the state. There was little more for them to gain in 2014. All that was feasible was to hold on to most of their recent gains, which is what happened.
I suspect most Republican activists are secretly hoping to see Bully Barber and his gang of protesters attempt to disrupt the General Assembly again in 2016, whatever their latest demagogic crusade. HB2 may be tweaked, but it won’t be repealed. In fact, the crowd of over a thousand HB2 supporters yesterday in Raleigh, as opposed to only a few dozen protesters, suggests that the GOP base may be energized enough in November to even withstand a serious disadvantage in the Presidential campaign.
Hey D.g. you must have loaned your rose -colored glasses to Mr. Mills. I can’t believe there can be two pair that present such a distorted view.
McCrory is probably wise to add LGBT discrimination to state anti-discrimination policy. It will take heat off from national corporations looking to expand in NC. But the lawsuit issue is not his call. He can recommend it, but the General Assembly must pass it. At this point, it’s not clear whether they will or won’t. Stay tuned….
Check this out, D.g.
You really have a penchant for lecturing, D.g. But you’re never revealed your credentials . I assume you have a H.S. diploma, but your level of expertise on all the different subjects you pontificate on is unimpressive. Before any one can really believe your BS is credible, you need to reveal in what field you have been trained, what your highest educational level is and what prestigious institutions you hold diplomas from.
I’ll stand by. And, BTW, for someone with a propensity to come across as a know it all, I’ll leave it to you to determine what you think are traditional churches. But don’t fret. There is no ‘right’ answer.
OMG, D.g., you just don’t get it. A major purpose of HB2 is to allow private businesses and other private operators to establish their own privacy policies that reflect he needs and opinions of their customers. The Charlotte ordinance would have PROHIBITED private rest room owners and operators from having SEPARATE male and female restroom and locker room facilities.
If a private business feels that unisex restrooms best fit their customers needs, they can establish such. If they believe there could be a potential problem, or if their customers prefer gender specific rest rooms, then they can maintain traditional male/female facilities.
How about this from the Triangle Business Journal:
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2016/03/08/by-gdp-n-c-had-fastest-growing-large-economy-in.html
That was a very cathartic description of Reverend Barber Eb; “Bully Barber.”
What is the emotional stability of someone who would pick on an obviously handicapped man who uses a cane to walk and support himself and call him a “Bully” just because he believes differently? Wow.
Here again, D.g., you don’t quite have your facts straight. The Governor cannot legally issue an Executive Order changing or amending a state law already in place. His Executive Oder involved ordering state agencies not to discriminate in hiring or employment because of sexual preference and gender identify. As chief executive of the state government, that is one of his powers.
His statement called for the General Assembly to amend HB2 to allow anti discrimination lawsuits in state courts. But only the General Assembly can do that through an amendment to HB2.
D.g., you write the Governor “is powerless to change the law.” It’s good to know you figured that out. Only the General Assembly can do that. His EO merely urged the General Assembly to amend HB2. That’s all he can do about discrimination lawsuits in state courts.
BTW, the main emphasis of his EO was to set state policy against LGBT discrimination in state employment and state services to the public. As Chief Executive of state government, that is within his authority.
D.g., you initiated a discussion of the Executive Order on this thread. (See Above post). When it becomes obvious you don’t know what you’re posting about and make what are proven to be false assertions, you now are not “interesting in discussing Executive orders.” Sorry, but its too late to wimp out of this one. Your erroneous assertions can’t be deleted or explained away.
D.g., that economic data is compiled and published by the Bureau of Economic Analysis, U.S. Department ofCommerce. BEA doesn’t calculate and release their data based on your or my demands. It’s probably released on a quarterly basis.
It’s now mid April. Data released in March is probably the most recent you will find right now. You’ll just have to be patient and wait until the next set of data is released by the feds.
Ebrun: you are so ignorant of the Moral Majority movement, which was started by Jerry Falwell in Virginia in the 1970s.
The aspersions you’re casting are meant for the Moral Mondays events, which is not the name of Rev. Dr. Barber’s movement but simply of that particular activity.
Alas, having read a number of your bizarre posts over the months, I’m not surprised.
You are correct, A.D. I miswrote. I meant to say Moral Monday instead of Moral Majority. Thanks for pointing that out, although I hardly think it should be characterized as “bizarre.” Just an honest mistake.
Any other of my “bizarre” posts you would like to reference, I’d be happy to respond.
The most terrifying element of HB2 is the fact that it illustrates the theocracy that passes for government in North Carolina. Franklin Graham runs the state. Very scary.
The exodus of employers is being announced on a daily basis. Less public decisions to avoid North Carolina are being made in boardrooms and across kitchen tables. The highly touted improvement in personal incomes is a snapshot of North Carolina’s financial rear-view mirror. Future economic data will reflect the current decline in the state’s status. We were moving away from 39th in personal income, but now it looks as if the GOP is trying to catch Mississippi at the bottom.
A few hundred racist yahoos demonstrating support for the bigoted legislature will not help matters. The leadership responsible for laws that bully the poor, the elderly, black people and gay people claim that they are victims. They have the power to undo their own bad decisions; the rest of us can only hope for a smarter, less ideological legislature next year.
Just read that Deutsche Bank cancelling expansion in Cary due to HB2. 250 high paying jobs(averge salary $85,000). Once again, nice job GA and McCrory!
Bet Nelson Dollar didn’t see that one coming. That’s gonna leave a mark.
Sure, it was all about HB2 for Deutsche Bank.
How convenient.
http://seekingalpha.com/…/3885826-liquidity-crisis-beginnin…
Cary may be glad they aren’t coming there. They might be looking for a bailout.