What will the Jessecrats do?

by | Oct 31, 2016 | Editor's Blog, NC Politics | 23 comments

Last week, I got a call from a friend who grew up with me. He’s a recently retired law enforcement officer and he wanted to talk politics. Even though he can’t vote for me, he’d seen my ads on television. His first question was, “You’re a Democrat, right?” I said, “Yep” and he responded “We all are.”

I’ve known him all of my life but we’ve never talked much politics. Instead, we talk about fishing, hunting, and the river. His questions that day, though, were about Obamacare, guns, and Hillary Clinton.

He wanted to know if I thought Obamacare was a good thing or a bad thing. When I told him that I thought it was a mixed bag, he didn’t want to hear that. He wanted a yes or no answer. I said that overall it was good but that it needed a lot of work and that Congress needed to fix it.

He didn’t like my answer, but he moved on to the real question. If Hillary Clinton is elected president, she’s going to try to ban guns, he asserted. I argued that wasn’t true, but he insisted that a liberal Supreme Court could mean that guns get banned. He’s concerned that the country could follow in the footsteps of Australia.

The longer we talked, the more I got the impression that he was trying to find a reason to vote for Hillary Clinton, not justify his vote against her. He acknowledged that Trump is a loudmouth, vulgar, and often “full of shit.” Still, Trump would protect his 2nd Amendment right. How could he be sure that Clinton would?

I’m not sure we ever solved much, but I’m also not sure that he’s going to vote for anybody for president. Which brings me to another point. What are the Jessecrats going to do? For years, about 20% or so of white Democrats in North Carolina have voted Republican at the federal level and often down the ballot. What if they sit this one out?

Clearly, my friend is dissatisfied with his choices for president. He doesn’t want to vote for Trump, but he’s an NRA member and believes that Clinton is going to threaten his 2nd Amendment rights. Maybe he’ll take a pass altogether. If voters like him stay home, they hurt the top of the GOP ticket. They might be registered Democrats but they haven’t been voting that way for a long time.

23 Comments

  1. Frank Heitmann

    #5 and #6 above – they are over broad (and overboard) Mr. Troy. I am a mental health professional and I diagnose people with a “mental illness” everyday. This in no way means – for 99 out of 100 – they are impaired in their judgement or abilities. Likewise commitment to a mental hospital is over broad. I recall a certain vice presidential – Senator Eagleton – who was castigated when it came out he’d been depressed and undergone electro-convulsive treatment at the time. And that time had little in the way of medication treatments, so his case was not so unusual….for then.

    Please sir, re-consider your categories.

    • Troy

      You came to chastise, defend, and advocate but I see nothing in your writing offering alternatives. I have; I’ll let them stand. Why? A myriad of reasons actually. But it’s my list. I made it up. You are certainly free to develop your own and bring it here to discuss if you wish. However, if you read them unencumbered by your professional bias, you will see that they address behaviors, either by omission or commission, that would demonstrate one incapable of the responsibility of firearms possession or ownership. It would take decades to dial them each down to specifically address just those things listed in the DSM-VII. And…as a medical professional if you’re willing to sign off on John Doe buying and possessing weapons in your professional opinion, then I’m sure a waiver could be provisioned in those laws for that eventuality. Any presumption made here by me is certainly rebuttable.

      You offered the example of the Senator so I’ll offer another. Adam Lanza. The things this man was afflicted with are not my forte. I concern myself only with the fact that he was afflicted and walked into an elementary school and killed over two dozen people for reasons that will forever remain unanswered. Whose to blame? That’s a long probability list too. He was sheltered by his mother. He was mis-diagnosed by his doctors. The parents of the victims blamed the firearms manufacturer. No doubt a wary eye was cast toward the school system for not ensuring it’s schools were locked down like prisons. Some would even say that the ‘system’ failed Adam Lanza. Perhaps.

      What I do know is this. That weapon didn’t take itself out of the gun safe, didn’t load itself, didn’t drive itself to an elementary school, didn’t forcibly enter that school and then lay waste to the people inside. That weapon would have stayed forever in that safe had it not been for Adam Lanza and whatever mental or emotional state he was in that fueled his actions.

      In the pursuit of a solution however and as a matter for discussion, it would have been better to deny him his right rather than allowing him to exercise it and then he deny those people their rights by killing them.

  2. Dem Ocrat

    Hillary Clinton banning guns, or getting Justices to do it, is just one of the lies the gun manufacturers and NRA types are using to try to defeat her. She believes in sensible gun control, and surely we need background checks and I personally think if you have to have a license and registration for a car, you certainly need one for a gun. I also believe assault rifles weren’t something the framers of the 2nd amendment were thinking of when they spoke of a well armed militia. Those need to be outlawed. You can protect yourself with a pistol or shoot a deer with a rifle, but an automatic weapon or machine gun is for killing lots of people fast.

    • Greg Duncan

      Automatic weapons ie machine guns are already banned unless you have a federal lic. to own one and that one is hard to get. The rifles you speak of as “assault rifles” are just rifles that look like but do not operate like them. Fun to shoot and easier to carry in the woods. And the 2 nd amendment refers to a regulated militia. How do you regulate a militia? Keep the people armed. Remember the US Army at that time was made up of state militias.

    • Troy

      That’s an awful lot of opinion without a demonstrable knowledge base. You start out in the first sentence saying that “banning guns” is just lies by the NRA and others. Then you advocate for “outlawing” certain semi-automatic rifles that bare a resemblance to military weapons. So I’m curious as to which fork in the road you took.

      I’m sorry, background checks are not “gun control.” That’s people control. You’re controlling access to firearms by deciding who can buy them lawfully. Having made that distinction, what would those “sensible controls” be? I hear that term used interchangeably with “common sense gun control” so I’m curious as to what is meant by that.

      That all being said, I disagree with her on some of what she advocates for on this issue; I still voted for her.

      I’m not saying you’re wrong or misguided either. Obviously you’re passionate about this; so am I, albeit different sides. But shouting and screaming at each other won’t settle this issue. I’m not sure anything truly will. Republicans use it as a hot button topic and there are some voters who think of this one issue and only this. Every time someone on the Democratic side utters the words “gun control”, gun manufacturers go into overdrive because their business is going to get better.

      To be perfectly frank, they’re all profiteering from the hysteria; both sides of the issue.

    • TY Thompson

      Sensible control can mean anything from forcible disarmament of the People to….well, how do you define it?

      • Troy

        Depends on whose sense we’re speaking of, which was the reason I asked. Those cute little labels, “common sense” “sensible” “reasonable” take on any meaning because they are subjective to the listener. Plus, you have to balance any constraint with the Constitution since it is a right, not a privilege.

        As far as what I think sensible controls are, if any of the following apply to you, you can’t buy or possess a firearm.

        1. If you’re on a government watch list.
        2. If you’re a convicted felon.
        3. If you’ve been convicted of domestic violence.
        4. If you’re not a citizen.
        5. If you’ve ever been committed to a mental hospital.
        6. If you’ve ever been diagnosed with a mental illness.
        7. If you’ve ever been a member of any radical or terrorist group promoting, hate, violence or sedition.

        Will those stop gun violence? No, in my measured opinion. It might slow it down however. What it does do is try to keep those persons identified as being potentially deadly from mixing with firearms; with the exception of #4. You can be a good person and not a citizen. If you want to own, buy, or possess a weapon however, you need to step up.

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  4. Bill Cokas

    When was the last time the election of a president resulted in any significant–perceived or otherwise–restrictions to 2nd Amendment rights? I’m asking this in all seriousness.

    • Troy

      William Jefferson Clinton. The Federal Assault Weapon ban. It also banned any semi-auto magazine capable of holding ten (10) or more rounds. Signed in 1994. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) has reintroduced the tenets of the same bill in 2013. The law expired in 2004 via a sunset provision.

      • Bill Cokas

        Thanks, Troy. I was just wondering how much validity there was to the ever-present panicky cry “they’re coming for your guns!” Obviously such a measure (as the Federal Assault Weapon ban) would require the cooperation and support of Congress.

        • Troy

          It would require just that Bill and that isn’t an impossibility. The politics of fear is ever popular and growing.

          But it’s not like we haven’t tried gun control before. The results have been dubious in the best of contexts. 1927, 1934, 1968, and 1994 were years that saw attempts to ratchet down on gun violence through stricter control and access. I’ll reserve my comments and let you judge for yourself if you care to read that far.

          I’ll confess I don’t view firearms and weapons in the same context as most of the others that post here. I don’t view those who advocate for as generally being “nut-jobs” or “gun fanatics.” They’re not entirely innocent either. I’m not a member of the NRA.

          But I believe that there are controls that need to be in place, other than nothing and those posed by persons like Dianne Feinstein that would be more effective than “bans.” Every time someone goes on TV and even addresses the subject, manufacturers squeal with glee. Senator Feinstein has been very good for their business.

          But tragedies do occur and those feelings of rage and loss turn into cries and demands for justice and an accounting. Not toward the perpetrator of the act but the implement.

          Unlike some others, I don’t have the answers, but I’m willing to look and listen. I don’t like the needless loss of life either.

  5. Jim Bartow

    My question is how many of these Jessecrats are still around?

    Many of them must be getting older and dying off. I believe even more switched their party registration this year to Republican or Unaffiliated in order to vote in this years Republican Primary. I know that a lot of rural Democrats are missing from the rural registration roles. Many counties is NC have actually had net negative Democratic registration.

    • Chris Telesca

      there are still lots of racists in the Democratic Party. I’ve never heard the “N” word used so many times by old white Dems as when they thought Randy Voller was going to hire Dr. Ben Chavis to be NCDP Executive Director.

  6. Chris Telesca

    A recently retired law enforcement officer should be more worried about what some Democrats will do to his pension and other retirement benefits. Like giving the pension funds to hedge fund managers who like to make risky deals and charge hefty fees.

    He’s still probably young enough that he might be able to get another job for a few years. He might have been in the military before going into law enforcement. And maybe he has kids who are old enough to attend college or maybe even have graduated and are looking for a job that will let them have a decent life on their own. I’m surprised he wasn’t asking you about that.

    But this does show how far the modern Democratic Party has strayed from being the party of the working class. We ought to be focusing on how the Democratic Party is concerned with the needs of folks like your friend instead of all the inside the Beltline professionals, entrepreneurs and techies who make up the top of the party these days.

    • larry

      Funny, I thought it was the GOP who has a fetish for privatization. Wasn’t the Bush folks earlier this century that wanted to privatize Social Security(everyone’s pension) Privatize as turn over trillions of taxpayers cash to the very hedge fund and Wall Streeters who you seem to believe are the problem and Democrats are in bed with. I have been around a long time and for life of me I cannot remember ever that it was the Democrats who bailed or crashed pension funds and the greater US economy. Memory serves that would fall totally on the likes of Hoover, Bush 1 in the 80s, his son Bush 2 in 2008 along with the GOP congress from the mid 90s to 2006 most recently. And if workin folks like my dad and mom and most of my family have to fear the Democrats its new to them and for the record all are voting straight Democratic ticket. I suspect you have been mislead along the way and that can be fixed by a serious reading and understanding of history and the reality of politics in modern America.

      • Apply Liberally

        Thanks, Larry. Took the words out of my mouth in your response to Chris. Nowadays, I see/read so many assertions and claims–whether against Obama or Clinton or Dems–that just make me wonder what people are digesting in the media or on the internet.

        I am unaware of cases where “Dems” are weakening retirement/pension funds for public employees, whereas I have seen the GOP in power in red states doing just that. (And, BTW, in similar manner the NCGOP is considering ending health insurance coverage in retirement for states employees).

        Finally and frankly, I personally disagree with Chris’ argument that “We ought to be focusing on how the Democratic Party is concerned with the needs of folks like your friend.” I would hope that Dems never serve the needs of voters who (a) are actually gullible enough to believe a president could unilaterally take people’s guns away, or (b) would make gun ownership the primary criteria for choosing who to vote for. They haven’t figured out (or refuse to believe) that it would take Congressional and state-electorate voting action to abrogate the 2nd Amendment via the Constitutional amendment process. And second, they fail to recognize that there are many more important issues to worry about in the US than gun ownership rights.

        • Chris Telesca

          Sometimes its so easy to set you guys up.

          Gina Raimondo of RI set up a sweetheart deal with hedge funds while she was Treasurer. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926

          The state’s workers, in other words, were being forced to subsidize their own political disenfranchisement, coughing up at least $200 million to members of a group that had supported anti-labor laws. Later, when Edward Siedle, a former SEC lawyer, asked Raimondo in a column for Forbes.com how much the state was paying in fees to these hedge funds, she first claimed she didn’t know. Raimondo later told the Providence Journal she was contractually obliged to defer to hedge funds on the release of “proprietary” information, which immediately prompted a letter in protest from a series of freaked-out interest groups. Under pressure, the state later released some fee information, but the information was originally kept hidden, even from the workers themselves. “When I asked, I was basically hammered,” says Marcia Reback, a former sixth-grade schoolteacher and retired Providence Teachers Union president who serves as the lone union rep on Rhode Island’s nine-member State Investment Commission. “I couldn’t get any information about the actual costs.”

          Janet Cowell – the Democratic Treasurer of NC – did the exact same thing. Got sweetheart deals with hedge fund managers under secret contracts, then got paid to work on the boards of financial services companies. Would be be so understanding if McCrory were still drawing a paycheck from Duke Energy?

          http://www.pionline.com/article/20160516/ONLINE/160519905/nc-employees-group-calls-for-cowell-to-choose-between-treasurer-corporate-boards

          Why do you think she isn’t running for that position again?

          http://www.wral.com/seanc-treasurer-s-handling-of-pension-fund-warrants-criminal-probe/13585343/

          http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article9115109.html

          Among other things, the report, unveiled at a press conference at SEANC’s headquarters Tuesday morning, contends that Cowell has potentially violated numerous state and federal laws regarding investment disclosure; concealed $30 billion in investments from public view; and cost the pension fund $6.8 billion in returns over the past five years because “alternative” investments, such as hedge funds and real estate, have under-performed.

          One of the two Democratic Party primary candidates for Treasurer was harshly critical of Cowell’s move. The other thought she did a good job. Guess which one got more donations from financial services folks? He’s running now, but didn’t get the endorsement of SEANC.

          https://www.seanc.org/news/seanc-announces-cos-endorsements

          The corporate conservaDems also have a thing for privatization – they endorse charter schools, and Queen HIllary herself is also talking about private savings accounts managed by Wall Street banksters.

          http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/how-wall-street-could-control-retirement-savings/

          I read and comprehend things very well. Thanks to Bubba Clinton and the DLC, the Democratic Party has sold our birthright for corporate donations.

          Why do you think both HIllary Clinton and David Price voted for the Bankruptcy Reform bill that Elizabeth Warren opposed back in 2005-2006?

          Why do you think after the 2007 recession and all the fraud that brought it about – no banksters have gone to jail?

          Why do you suppose none of the Wells Fargo bankers who approved of opening up all those fraudulent bank accounts have gone to jail?

          Because they buy off too many politicians of BOTH parties – Republicans and Democrats!

          So the Democratic Party is the party of the professionals (lawyers, doctors, stockbrokers, banksters, techies, etc.) and we are only supposed to be concerned about gay rights and freedom of choice, while the Republicans are about God, guns and gays.

        • Chris Telesca

          What was well said? My response with links to articles proving Democrats are coming after your pensions and benefits is still awaiting moderation!

    • Smartysmom

      sheesh, I thought you misspoke and said democrats when you meant republicans! You must be living under a rock listening to piped in propaganda, not out in the real world paying attention to reality. It’s the republicans who want to (and have been) taking away pensions

      • Chris Telesca

        If you clicked on the links I posted, you will see that we have establishment conservaDems like Hillary Clinton who want to privatize Social Security; and Dem treasurers like Gina Raimondo from RI and Janet Cowell from NC who give big secret contracts to hedge funds to manage public pensions for high fees which end up not delivering the high rates promised.

  7. Mike Philbeck

    Seems to me that a lot more than 20% of ‘white’ registered Democrats regularly vote Republican in NC. Especially in the semi-rural and rural counties.

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