It seems yesterday’s blog post caused quite a stir among Bernie Sanders supporters. For the record, I agree with much of what Sanders says and I’ve always liked him in the Senate. That said, I don’t think he has snowball’s chance in hell of becoming president.
First, Sanders has always called himself a socialist. In modern American politics, that title makes a candidate unelectable for national office. According to a poll last spring only 47% of the American public would vote for a socialist. In comparison, 74% said they would vote for a gay candidate and 60% would vote for a Muslim. And 47% is probably high for swing states like North Carolina and Ohio.
Nationally, Sanders trails Clinton by double digits. He never gets more than about 25% of the Democratic electorate. As I said yesterday, I’m guessing that his ceiling is pretty low. According to an ABC poll, Americans prefer someone with experience over an outsider by a 16-point margin, 56%-40%.
Several people commented that Sanders “feels like” Obama 2008 more than Howard Dean 2004. He doesn’t look much like Obama 2008 at all. Obama had establishment support from the start. His campaign actually began before he entered the Senate when he wowed the Democratic National Committee in 2004. At this point in 2007, he was rallying minorities as well as young voters and anti-establishment activists.
Sanders’ campaign is white young people and white activists, just like Howard Dean’s campaign in 2004. And like Sanders, Dean was packing houses with what looked like growing momentum. He coined the term “the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.”
In addition, Obama’s campaign was based on emotions and rejection of Bush/Cheney in the midst of a crushing recession. “Hope and Change” with little specifics drove his campaign. Sanders is all about specifics like free tuition and taxing the rich. That appeals to people like me, but I’m not so sure it appeals to the middle.
I hope that Bernie Sanders helps drive the Democratic agenda. I hope that he forces the party to embrace more populist economic policies. I hope he makes hawkish Democrats more cautious about entering into foreign conflicts. I hope he energizes young people and makes more people who are apathetic tune into the election. I hope he starts to tear down the silly and reactionary perception of the term socialism. But I don’t hope he is the Democratic nominee.
A Sanders nomination essentially guarantees a Republican victory, because, as the poll says, only 47% of Americans will vote for a socialist. For all of this foolishness about there being no difference between Hillary Clinton and Republicans, I’m old enough to remember when left-of-center activists said the same thing about George Bush and Al Gore. Enough of them voted for Ralph Nader in Florida to prove how wrong they were.
Democrats need the base to show up next November but they also must win the middle. Considering the people the GOP has running, I think Democrats can motivate the base. I don’t think Bernie Sanders can win the middle. In the primary, I’ll vote for someone, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden or someone else, who can.
Thomas Mills is the founder and publisher of PoliticsNC.com. Before beginning PoliticsNC, Thomas spent twenty years as a political and public affairs consultant. Learn more >
At this time in history winning power is extremely significant. Institutions desperately need visionary leadership that clarifies their mission that is rightly to benefit the people of the Nation. It is the time again of Corporate attacks on the Nations of the whole world. Corporation USA with its stupid Free Trade, and patent search openness along with then lack of intellectual property consciousness when all is up to be grabbed in any transfer airport is incredibly stupid and driving short term financial engineering as a real factor when no more than a 6 month lead in innovations can be expected. Of course the MBA love of the wage slave China Corporation control that has to put nets around Foxcom to slow the suicides of labor also opens up the guts of all company secrets and techniques that will mean entire industries will be swallowed by the friend of nuclear mad dog North Korea. I quit the Democratic Party now after the complete loss of Tax Credits for Energy Capture. Decisions in NC, which stands for Not Conscious now as we talk of the thin men, thin woman fronts while the CIA and NSA fight the GRU and FSB to keep our competitive edge in value added weaponry sales. Rayethon parks more and more overseas so as never ever to pay any taxes which no one or any entity ever pays willingly. I say as Barbara Tuchman said that it is long past time to abolish the War Powers President. Cabinet members serving at the pleasure of the President is an insult. Atomic Weapons are an insult to all working people who have plenty to worry about with just weather and wages. Silence is the new propaganda and Cooper and Burr are squeaking platitudes at even the lowest volume possible. The people want an Authority, and Strength. Look how far the sex object Palin got pointing shotguns. All the C.S.A. of the Not Conscious state signed and sign to Norquist Nation. Sanders has to identify himself as a New Deal Democrat and drop the Socialist sobriquet. It now is fine with me if they shut down the government since it would be a fine time and place that occupy could fill taking the abandoned seats and keeping them through force of arms, which would be necessary in the end of it. Of course sanity means occupying TV Land. Finally there will be a Democratic Debate. Of course there is TV Land and Reality TV stardom, all the thing now revolving from the Currency of Fame, and what is Sanders famous for? He is famous for dissidence and losing seated in the Senate.
No, it does matter. Yes we need change. Won’t happen if the bureaucracy of the independent powers, the Secret Services are not reigned in and really just fired. I myself am for converting to the parliamentary system that is really about party. I am for an end to the drug war, and I am for energy capture that clearly will power the essential grid plus give every block independence of it till the legacy grid gives power to the electric roads and a manufacturing base with so much inexpensive power no one can beat the nation with even slave labor.
Copy the whole disscusion and send it to everyone via your email list and ask they send it to theirs.
Democrats are agonizing about the Genearl Election, that is evident here.
We need to think and be clear on our goals.
All the tools work. Get out from in front of our screens and hit the streets.
Talk to everyone in your communicty every chance you get, left or tight.
Remind people to be open ionmded and to vote!
and unlike me, Don’t forget to spell check!
I am ramping up now with my Transcendian Party. I want a flatbed and a small plane by filing fee time, though the truck I need sooner to raise up the filing fee. Resigned my position as Vice Chair for lack of support and losers and a bunch I can’t support, and won’t support me.
Loss of Tax Credits for small businesses in renewables when regardless of anything Ports and Energy mean prosperity was a bad bridge.
Bernie? What about Bernie? Neither Dems, or Republicans will win without vote tampering.
The need for new voting machines comes at just the right time.
I have to thank all of you for making me sit down and put some of the thoughts that have been on my mind down on paper. We could go on and on with this incredible discussion, but I think some of you, like me, are thinking “Where do we go from here?”. At first I wasn’t sure, but it became obvious to me that we have to spread our ideas and this discussion to others. Besides the usual chores we do during campaigns (i.e. handing out brochures, stuffing envelopes, going door-to-door, etc.), I think we should blanket the country with letters to the editor. I am going to cut-and-paste the comments I’ve made into several letters, and send them to key newspapers across the country. There are a lot of other issues that could go into our letters, but they should always be polite and respectful. Our letters may wind up in a lot of trash cans, but it’s worth trying. Wish us luck.
The battlefield is on TV Land. The man at the lectern, in front of the Podium, Ranting? Pushing buttons? What of these writings makes such scripts? All the newsrooms of the TV stations are after numbers, ratings that mean they can command higher fees for the air time they sell. “Make America Great Again!”
We need a Woman In Charge!
Tax the Rich. Lower Taxes. Save Social Security!
Send the Mexicans home!
Our Armed Forces must fight!
No Boots on the Ground!
I’d suggest sending firebrands directly to the front of the station to scream from the stage of a flat bed. “Up with Nationalism!” “Down with the Corporate State.” “We are all Nationalists Now!” “Down with the Market State!”
“Greed Is Mean!”
“Einstein is on our Side!”
“Jesus was a Nationalist!”
“Hillary is a Corporatist!”
Get a Deuce from WWII, Paint the Flag on it. Put a PA on it, and Drive it to the TV Stations and be loud. Be there either early when the Station Director of News draws up the story list, or late when camera trucks are returning empty handed.
Get a Man and Woman, and let’s see them scream and point!
Try that.
The battlefield is that TV Land Screen that is the same as a fireplace. Make sure there is a digital moving banner on the truck that posts Breaking Story Bernie has Big Numbers in California. Bernie Endorses Your Friend and Senator, Bobby Blow! Bernie Picks Big Mean Dog as VP!
As it goes I say a Truck With a Stage and a Band!
a digital banner.
Our Goals Are Right! There’s are Wrong!
Join us or die!
Expressions of opinion are OK. Expressions of implied violence are not.
Of other things to note…
1) We really shouldn’t be focused on Republican vs. Democrats as we’re all American people and we really need to work on overcoming the ridiculous partisanship in our nation. Really, that’s what the mainstream media, establishment politicians, and corporations are interested in. To pull the wool over our eyes and have us to fight among one another.
2) I honestly think Bernie has a better shot than Hillary in the primary. Many conservative people really dislike and distrust Hillary. Opposition to her and voter turnout against her will be larger as people are incensed to vote against her. In addition, many progressives do not trust/will not vote for her either… So, really a Hillary nomination would mean increased support for the Republican party and decreased for the Democratic party… Woo hoo. I’ve heard of conservative people changing their views and party registration after being introduced to Bernie… have heard of no such thing for Hillary.
There are cogent critiques of Senator Sanders far as his foreign policy positions. Moving forward the USA has been wrecked well. You end up now being either a corporatist or a nationalist. It is obvious that Hillary has become a corporatist over the years, as is her husband.
Like as how you keep soap operas going it is either a wedding or a death. If Hillary were to now divorce Bill, she would win. She would then lock down the women’s vote for sure. As well she could repudiate Bill’s bills signed that locked in Meyer Lansky finances that have so wrecked the dollar it is only worth what it is because Europe went fantasy land with the common currency.
I personally could simply vomit were Bill Clinton to live in the White House again. He has turned out to be the greatest Republican ever. Republicans in the know would definitely defect to Hillary and Bill. His love fest with the Bushes Senior and Junior are legend, and for good reason. The guys there at the top know that his pen fixed it all for them.
Bernie does have the advantage of being a nationalist as opposed to a corporatist, and the USA needs his domestic policies badly. Money he has spoken to spend is money spent in the USA for the interests of the USA.
The USA reaches too far to be the Government of Governments by itself and will not give up atomic weapons unless forced to.
Banning the Bomb is necessary if we are to make it through the bottleneck.
But if you look at it all realistically there is all the reason in the world to just flee if you can. We simply cannot trust our secret services. Long as even founded as the OSS the agendas were too often their own.
But all this is out of the hands of the Not Conscious State. Here in NC with 25 percent poverty and a long tradition of Governors who sell out labor at every turn, or let it all go without a peep of protest we need to look at changing the minds of those who are intelligent enough to enter into honest debate. My study of the history of economic policies and this Free Trade cry and this Neoliberalism in our allies history, Great Britain, provides real bite your teeth in it reality to show how wrong it is.
Len Deighton did come out of Intelligence and wrote many a fine spy novel. The most cogent story of the destruction of the British Empire stares you, or the honest debater who might feel something strong for this great state, in the face, In his History Blood Tears and Folly. The turn to an economy of Finance instead of keeping industry and commerce of their own, just as have we, and they became an illusion of power, unable to pay their bills in two wars the best they have to offer is celebrity royals no better than the Kardasians.
Is this really what we want? To grab back the ropes that might put wind in the sails again would mean changing minds by pointing to this history that would be unethical to do as an experiment for some lab work as Diamond said.
But it is stark and it is true. Carry forth more of these neoliberal policies and we will be all grubbing for change in the gutters.
The C.S.A. went bankrupt before as well. I do not want this for Not Conscious and am right about how to win.
Personal contact. The stage truck at the TV Stations and a scene from town to town, and flight in a small plane to every airport as Johnson did in helicopters he was way too fond of when it is tanks that win wars.
I found the linked Huffpost piece relevant to this amazing conversation sparked by Thomas Mills.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8163092
Thanks “WNC Observer.” You’ve pointed out a wonderful article about our “moment of truth.” Let’s help make Bernie Sanders our next president!
Thank you there WNC observer.
Indeed, we do need to be counter-reactionary. Republicans have used every hot button topic between earth and sky to perpetuate their agenda. Things that are meant to generate an impassioned and knee-jerk response from their faithful. Their world is cloaked in the half-truth and made up hyperbole of reactionist dogma. To incite, rather than inspire. To lecture and talk down to, rather than discuss with. To rule over, rather than govern with. To browbeat, coerce, and manipulate, rather than compromise with. To grab more and more for themselves and to make the rules that enable it without remorse and with a smile. That is the Republican way and that platform hasn’t changed in over 100 years.
I agree with everything you said; I wanted to add the previous section as a short continuation of this discussion. We need to be on message. We need to tell people what it is Democrats offer. An actual chance at improving their lives, better living conditions, and a living wage; along with employment to earn it.
Reagan played his greatest role from 1980-89. He should have gotten a Tony Award for that performance. Like most actors however, he certainly wasn’t the character he portrayed.
Social Security isn’t an “entitlement” it’s earned. We all pay in to it. It’s our money.
Everything else you said, yeah, me too.
If we think of the political right as counter-revolutionary, then I guess we have to become “counter-reactionary.”
1) Our first step must be to remain positive and eliminate defeatism. In our thoughts we should borrow the phrase from the Obama campaign, “yes, we can!”
2) We need to remain positive in the message we are sending. Why do we believe as we do? How will it make a difference?
3) Progressives/liberals/socialists, and our ideals have been under constant attack for many decades. We have to counter these attacks aggressively and effectively – with logical and persuasive information.
For example, the political right likes to portray us as wasteful, soft-hearted spendthrifts. The most fiscally conservative President in my memory was Jimmy Carter, with his zero-based budgeting. On the other hand, the right’s conservative hero, Ronald Reagan, was one of the biggest spendthrifts, amassing huge debt with his military expansion and lower taxes (for the wealthy, of course). The two Bush Presidents then gave us the gift of two unfunded wars.
In fact, the political right is not truly fiscally conservative (certainly not as fiscally conservative as I am, and I am a liberal)! It’s a ruse the right uses to hide their goals of creating a small and domestically ineffective federal government. They want States to be the center of political power, because States are more easily bought, corrupted, and gerrymandered.
The political right wants to destroy every progressive advance of the past hundred years or so, even going back to the progressive programs dating to the Republican administration of Theodore Roosevelt.
The political right likes to portray themselves as the party who will keep America safe. They don’t want people to remember that we funded and trained al Qaida fighters when they were trying to oust the Soviets during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. They don’t want us to know that the Republican wars and policies in Iraq destabilized the middle east, opened a great opportunity for Iran, and drove the former Baath military troops and leadership into the hands of ISIS. They sure did make things safer for us, huh?
We have been criticized for negotiating, or even talking, with Iran! Did we forget that Ronald Reagan provided arms to Iran not that long after the Iranians had stormed our embassy and taken Americans hostage.
Did Reagan cut-and-run, when he quickly withdrew American Marines after the bombing of their barracks in Lebanon? I believe that was the description (“cut-and-run”) the right used to describe our planned withdrawal from Iraq. The “righteous” attitudes of the political right have many vulnerabilities.
According to the political right, programs that help the “common” citizen and our environment, and their favorite target, social security, are all responsible for our growing national debt and other assorted fiscal problems. The debt couldn’t be due to our military spending and our unfunded wars, could it?
The right likes to point to studies showing the period of projected solvency for the social security fund (and they don’t tell anyone they raided the social security fund to pay some of their unfunded debt). Insurance companies analyze solvency periods for the annuities they sell, and then make adjustments in their programs to maintain their funds’ solvency, just as we have been doing for social security. Besides, social security, because of the way it is funded, doesn’t add to our debt.
The immigration issue is a great embarrassment, reflecting our ignorance of facts and a lack of consideration for the human side of this issue. Is Mexico really screening all the people they send across the border, so that we are only getting the criminals and dregs. What nonsense! First, if there is money to be made criminals will always find a way to cross borders, despite any immigration policy or wall. The mass of immigrants are fellow humans who come for a better life, as many of our ancestors did. But the political right says, “they are taking American jobs” (“it’s the numbers,” they say). These immigrants come across our southern border, many to live under near-slavery conditions, to work for salaries few Americans would accept, and work at jobs that even fewer Americans would consider. If anything these immigrants deserve our thanks and greater protections.
There are many other issues we need to “bone up” on so that we can effectively counter the propaganda of the political right. Do we all know the important facts about climate change? Have we all considered the reasoning behind the agreement recently reached with Iran (and the alternatives if there is no agreement)? Do we really understand our obligations under international law, and why it is important. If we are to be effective “counter-reactionaries,” we have to have a better grasp of the facts than the right, and we have to be able to communicate these facts to our fellow citizens.
Excuse me for getting carried away (again). I will try to be quiet (for a while at least). Please consider, this could be an important turning point for the progressive movement.
(PS: I wish we could get rid of labels, right/left, conservative/progressive, socialist/capitalist. They are rarely what they seem, and they get in the way of our discussion and our understanding.)
The conflict is between the Corporate, or Market State, and Nations, nation states. The goal of the Corporatists is to dismantle all nation states.
Sanders is a Nationalist. His plans for the treasury are to spend internally for the good of the people and the nation. Corporatists are not at all interested in making the US stronger.
They have the use of the US army, and the use of the people as reinsurers of their deeply flawed products.
The Corporatists as well have played the US for fools, by instead of investing in those corporations and companies that did advance US leads in innovation etc., buying with the cash citizens were coerced into giving them, all the land, then raising rents.
The safe party bet on Hillary Clinton, obviously a Corporatist is the way her candidacy is cloaked, when in fact it goes beyond that.
Sanders would have to fire a great number, dismantle the independently operating CIA, NSA and its other deep cover fronts that use the name of the US for the Corporatist agenda.
Richard Helms and James Angleston are in fact likely to have used Oswald as the patsy he said he was before he was murdered. Assassinations of political leaders and unsolved murders surrounding the deaths of both Kennedy’s are hard to accept as accidents of incompetence.
NC sees Targets upheld and tax credits withdrawn for energy. This advances the destruction of nascent competition Duke Power is happy fine with. The Governor is shameless and says he wants and deserves the power, he wrests from the Judiciary.
25 percent, working or not live in poverty, with little time or historical memory that enable more than survivalist dreams of another myth. The eugenically propagandized racial division keeps Labor divided.
Voter machines are old and defective and money must be spent to replace them, right now.
Absolutely, Tom. And yes, Bob, winning *is* the main thing when we have a Supreme Court in the balance. Allowing a Republican to take the oval office would have a devastating effect.
Avram,
That is very well said. I agree that I have never seen a phenomenon quite like Bernie in my years. I would only add that when Bernie first announced, he was greeted as an amusing diversion by many rank and file party members, and not worthy of much coverage by the press. But everywhere he goes, he wins converts, and now that he is a legitimate contender the naysayers proclaim, “he cannot win the general election”. I wish I had the power to predict the general election outcome, which the naysayers confidently claim.
Tom,
At this point I can only assume that anyone still saying “Bernie can’t win” is making a futile attempt at self-fulfilled prophesy. It’s becoming increasingly obvious that Bernie’s opponents are more accurately wondering if it’s possible to stop him and the revolution he is galvanizing.
I have to apologize for missing one of Troy’s important points. The question of whether the Tea Party movement is revolutionary. We think of revolutionary as being modern and forward thinking – progressive. However revolution can bring about any drastic change in direction, political or otherwise. Revolution can even be regressive and reactionary. We are witnessing a dramatic shift of our political systems to the right. It didn’t happen by chance. It was planned by a thousand Karl Roves. Amusingly (sort of), even the Tea Party followers believe they are involved in a revolution. We need to bring about a revolution in compassion, understanding, and reason. We need to bring about a revolution in our concern for our planet and the people living on it!
True enough. People purport revolution essentially as effecting positive change; something for the better; a complete deviation from the status quo toward a better alternative. I’ll stop before I get to utopic.
The regression and reactionary aspects are, I concede, thought of by me as counter-revolutionary. But I don’t want to lose sight of what is by getting bogged down in rhetoric. No matter what we call it, what’s going on is wrong for the people of this state and this nation.
How and by whom to stop it and turn it around, well, now we’ve come full circle.
I think you are a p~~sy that why you won’t vote for Bernie
Now the Sanders crew becomes trolls and name callers. Knock it off!
Thomas Mills you are a COWARD and lack the COURAGE to stand by your convictions.
IF YOU WILL NOT STAND UP IN SUPPORT OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN, then get down and crawl on your hands and knees and beg for what you want. Never again complain because you do not have that RIGHT, because you are a COWARD.
In the Primary Elections everyone should have the COURAGE to support the Candidate who stands for the majority of the things that they support. Then if your Candidate does not win the Nomination you can switch and support the Candidate who wins the Nomination of your Political Party.
Can’t we all take a deep breath, and say together “Bernie can win, because he is the right person, and he will win because we will make it happen”?
You’re missing the boat on Bernie Sanders.Thomas.
He can win and probably will win because he is resonating with the American public. Wherever he goes to speak, people listen and like what they’re hearing, Democrats, Republicans and Independents.
Even at Liberty University he gained the respect (and some votes, I believe) because of his enormous, apparent integrity and authenticity. His demeanor is more Presidential than any of the other candidates, thoughtful, strong and steady. There’s a reason the Democratic National Committee doesn’t want too many debates. Debbie Wasserman Schultz doesn’t want the American public to see Sanders on the same stage as Hillary Clinton. But, it’s going to happen and when it does, it will be a very Presidential looking and sounding Bernie Sanders with all the other little people on the stage humming and hawing as he talks openly and forcefully about campaign finance reform, the political influence of Wall Street and the Big Banks, climate change and the Keystone XL Pipeline, the Trans-Pacific Trade Partnership and a multitude of other issues that resonates with the public and that the other candidates can’t talk about because they’re muzzled by the influence of the corporate campaign money they’re dependent upon to run their campaigns.
You need to educate yourself about the vast grassroots effort that is churning behind the scenes in the Sanders campaign. It is powerful, relentless, growing, and will continue to be under-estimated by the corporate news media, the Democratic National Committee, Hillary Clinton, the Republican Party and all the unwitting pundits until the Primary season begins. On Inauguration Day the NY Times will probably report on page 21 in a small headline that “Technically, Senator Bernie Sanders was inaugurated as President of the United States today. But, Hillary Clinton is still the overwhelming favorite to occupy the White House for the next four years.” They and you are living in denial of the revolution that is in our midst, personified by Bernie Sanders.
Tune in to the reality of what’s happening out there. This is different than anything I’ve seen in an American political campaign before. And I’ve seen a lot in my 65 years.
Avram Friedman
Yes, yes! Hillary is muzzled in intelligence, truth, grassroots, and doggone she can’t muster up a demeanor to match up to the wild haired radical Bernie. Her stint as SOS meant nothing. And on and on…I’m sick of the whining putdowns of the Sanders supporters.
And gee, I’ve seen a lot in my 57 years. Will that 8 years you’ve got on me show me much more? I doubt it.
Disregarding all of the tea party stuff (because who doesn’t disregard the tea party at this point?) The only way a Sanders run for the white house is paired with an establishment running mate. Sanders/Warren only has a chance if they’re running against Trump/Carson. Don’t take too much stock in early poll numbers either. Remember at this time in 2007 Hillary was going to take the Dem primary in a walk…. and how well did that work out for her?
What an ass you are!
Thinking of something Troy asked, “are Americans or North Carolinians ripe for “Political Revolution”?,” let me point out that we are already in the midst of a truly radical political revolution. The Tea Party “conservatives” (they are anything but), and radical evangelicals have delved deeply and intrusively into our political and personal lives. This revolution was primed by Ronald Reagan (their hero). These “pseudo-conservative” revolutionaries never asked “is the country ready,” they assumed it was and simply pounced. They like to claim they are trying to go back to the intent of our “founding fathers” (as if new times and new challenges may not require different solutions). Our dear founding fathers must be turning in their grave.
Insightful points Arnie. I confess I didn’t expand my consideration much past the content of what Thomas posted and the resulting commentary. I fear my contempt for those of the “Tea Party Patriot” movement would prove overwhelming so I won’t consider it beyond a cursory analysis, but I will say this. I don’t really consider them ‘revolutionary’ in the context of the meaning and contemporary understanding of that term. Since nothing they propose, propagate, or advocate for is truly ‘revolutionary’. It is however regressive and utterly counter to a modern and prospective nation in what has become an increasingly small world upon which we dwell. In the TPP and the Evangelical world, let’s face it, if you’re not a W.A.S.P., you should be purged. And theirs is the politics and propaganda of fear fueled by their own disdain for change and the fact they have had to share power and wealth in this nation. Well, they’re sick of it.
Reagan (who ‘Tip’ O’Neill summed up best when he said that, “Reagan wasn’t much of a President, but he would have made one hell of a King.”) was a legend in his own mind turned into a poster boy for the triumphant return of trickle-down economics and the dominating re-establishment of the ruling elite/robber baron/industrialist class after the respite of the Clinton years. Except they couldn’t pull it off again in this country, so they out-sourced manufacturing to overseas markets in order to undermine the wealth and progress of the American middle class. Well, they’ve almost accomplished their goal and rather than that same middle class turning against them, they’ve managed to rally the middle class behind them by electing more and more radical conservative ideologues to office. Now that is a hype and marketing strategy that is second to no other. In that regard, they’ve not been ‘revolutionary’ at all; they’ve played a more simplistic and older strategy; divide and conquer. And when you point this out, they wail as if they have been showered in holy water and counter that progressives are waging “class warfare” when it is they themselves that are dividing rather than uniting through domestic economic repression and terrorism.
I concur with your views 100% on the founding fathers and their reaction to what is going on currently. They are the ones that fought for freedom. Had the foresight to draft a document of guidance like our Constitution, and laid the foundation for us to perpetuate. I wonder if they would have even bothered, had they known what they left us would have been usurped into what it has become.
Passion without reason may be dangerous, and reason without passion may be ineffective. Why can’t we combine both reason and passion.
In addition, reason must be combined with action and commitment. Why do liberals have to be the first to compromise, the first to back down? Why quit even before the political “fight” has started,
Face it, the political right has the commitment and the passion. Their reason is seriously flawed, but they also have the money, and in our political system money seems to substitute for understanding and reason.
They said we could never elect a Catholic, until JFK was elected. They said a black man would never in this lifetime be elected, but Obama was. It may now be the long overdue time for a woman (oh, why couldn’t Elizabeth Warren have decided to run?).
If something is the right thing to do we should stop listening to the advice of pundits. If we don’t stop listening to them, they will always be right
Amen, brother Arnie!
Passion. The enthusiasm of passion in politics. Believing in something so strongly that one is moved to action. Alas, passion is hardly reality but it can become so. Thomas is talking rationally. He uses statistics and polling to show trends among the voting populace. Almost everything else is the emotion of passion. Which is fine. It’s just not empirical or quantifiable.
Is Bernie Sanders electable? Has the political stratification of this nation changed to the point that a self-declared “Socialist” be elected by a majority of the population? We’ll find out soon enough. By his words, he makes a lot of sense to me. But what he proposes for the Nation cannot be accomplished without major personnel changes in Congress. One man or woman cannot make an appreciable dent in the policies that have become the problems that I’ve seen stated here. It will likewise not happen nor should it happen in one term or election cycle.
Something that struck was that someone opined that Bernie was advocating a “Political Revolution” in his rhetoric. Perhaps. But let me ask you, are Americans or North Carolineans ripe for “Political Revolution”? You can’t say that and believe or prove we are on the precipice of any sort of “Political Revolution” when you look at who (political party) controls The White House and then who controls Congress and likewise the Governor’s Mansion and the NC Legislature and the time lines along which they came to control. Looking back across the last thirty years, should that not give one pause to consider how there is a Republican left in Washington or Raleigh and yet, there they are, in power, continually bashing those that elect them across the head with their policies and philosophy.
But before you start bashing, before you attack rationality with passion, take a minute to consider what is being said and the logic behind it. No one denies anyone’s strength of conviction for the candidate of your choice; obviously Bernie has a faithful and impassioned following. And that’s a good thing. It can lead to good things. But let’s not confuse passion with facts.
This has been an incredible exchange. All of you seem to agree that Bernie Sanders is addressing our Nation’s important issues. You seem to agree that his ideas for a better America are rational goals for this country, that he proposing the right solutions, and that he is saying the right things. You also seem to suggest he is the best person to be President. The only criticism I have seen mentioned is the lack of people of color by his side.
The political right has certainly done its job well! They have convinced us that we can’t win as liberals (or even worse as “socialists”).
We need to develop some spine. We need to fight those who try to win arguments by using liberal or socialist as epithets in order to end debate. We need to fight back with ideas and reason.
I admit I have trepidations. Maybe “they” (the political right) are correct. Perhaps the American electorate is sufficiently uninformed so that they are unable to understand our world and its problems, and that “they” can (only) be swayed by six-word sound-bites. However, in my heart I don’t believe this (and don’t want to believe this).
I do believe we (liberals) have not effectively made our arguments and positions known. We have been defeated, because we are defeatists. We have allowed the political right to dominate the debate, and allowed them to define the terms used in the debate.
We have allowed them to take over the state houses and governor’s offices. We have allowed them to gerrymander districts, and restrict voting rights.
We have allowed the political right to convince our citizens that our war in Iraq was a morally correct act that would introduce democracy and ultimately increase the region’s stability.
We have allowed the political right to convince our citizens that human-promoted climate change is a fraud, and the measures proposed to mitigate it are all part of a communist plot.
We have allowed them to infringe upon our freedoms (although they present themselves as the defenders of freedom).
With the collusion of too many Democrats, the political right has succeeded in blocking efforts to eliminate the corruption of our financial markets, and bring the criminals who brought about the near collapse of our markets to justice.
We have to stop accepting the notion that we are somehow to the left of the “middle,” and are unacceptable to those in the middle. We must prove that we are the middle! We must win over America with our ideas.
I could go on and on. But don’t only blame the political right for our problems. “We have met the enemy, and it is us”. We are defeatists (and deserve the title)!
I sincerely hope you will all prove me wrong.
I really wish there was an upvote system in the comments because this reply was quite fantastic. Also, I’d like to add that we may have been defeatists before but it’s not right to say that we “are” defeatists. We can always be better than we once were. Each and every one of us can talk to our family, friends, and neighbors. We can choose to take a stand and help others to their feet. Many have already started to do so (regardless of political affiliation), but many more can.
We have been defeated, because we are defeatists. Yes. Thank you, Arnie.
What Arnie said. Thank you, Arnie
Arnie, I waited a long time for someone like you to spell it out. Playing politics is a fun game, but it leads us to wherr we are now-believing that the solution to our problems are political, and can only be solved by a politician. Sadly the “morals” of politics is based solely on winning. Principles do matter! I think that presented with the choice properly presented the American people will make the right choices. I think that the Kochs, etc., also believe that and hence want to control the message and surpress the vote.
Let’s get out there and support Bernie and help him get hus nessage out.
Amen, Brother Mills. Bernie has great ideas, but he would be a disaster for the reality of the Democratic Party.
And electing anyone less who has poorer ideas will be a disaster for the reality of the American people. Corporate influence in our politics has got to go before things get worse. Hillary Clinton will not address that. Besides, there is no way that Bernie becomes popular enough to win the Democratic primary without more people getting exposed to his ideas and more grassroots activism. I don’t see how Bernie could lose the general when he’s already been pulling conservatives as a relative unknown. The more people hear and see him, the more they like him.
How do you know Hillary won’t address corporate influence in politics?? I keep seeing all these “facts” and none of them say what one’s reference is.
My apologies – I’d forgotten to respond. When you look at Hillary Clinton’s list of donors – both in this election cycle and over her career (which you can find on opensecrets.org), then you look at some of the direct beneficiaries of corporate welfare either through bailouts or tax loopholes – it is pretty easy to see that, while Hillary Clinton may pay lip service, heck she may even nominally try to fight corporate influence, it won’t even come close to how hard someone like Bernie Sanders will fight for our rights.
Damn, that’s a long run-on sentence.
I will consider Sanders when I see some black and Hispanic faces at his rallies. My second concern is the lack of a resume. Until he decided to run for the nomination he spent 20 years in Congress occupying a seat
That is easy to check. He isn’t persuasive enough to have more then one bill passed? Sure he says great things. If I were to tell you he was a child molester. The Bernie would say yeah but,he really says good stuff. The refuse to look at things realistically. I am afraid if he loses the primaries which I am pretty sure he will,that thousands will be staying home regardless of what that is going to do to the country. I guess you deserve who you didn’t vote for. 14 months to go and he’ll both of these candidates might be dead by the time the election comes,but go ahead . Get your yuck vilify ingredients Hillary and enjoy President Donald Dump.
I think that it is time for the Ghost of Elections Past to make an appearance. Y’all can rationalize picky little factors all you want, but the general election will be decided by the semi-informed (at best) and somewhat apathetic voters. The lead comment above is naive in stating that winning elections isn’t the main thing. How do you expect to get legislation and executive actions on the issues important to you? How do you expect that the justices of the US Supreme Court will allow your issues to actually be implemented? Sure, there will be SOME progress made by popular change within the country (as with gay marriage), but how about leading it instead of belatedly following trends, which is what the Supreme Court has done?
In the election of 1980, we had a decent incumbent Democrat, Jimmy Carter, running for re-election vs. a B-grade actor, Ronald Regan, who had done some damage to California as governor. To the “liberals” at that time, Carter was not pure enough. One young lady with whom I worked with in New York City stubbornly stayed home on election day because Carter was too “establishment.” The next day, she dejectedly observed, “I didn’t know that I cared so much.”
The refusal of “liberals” to vote for Carter helped to bring about the Reagan win. So, the “liberals” could have their “moral victory” or whatever. But think of the policies which were implemented during 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations and the Supreme Court nominations. My fear is that history will repeat itself. One has to be somewhat pragmatic about elections–you get NOTHING if you don’t win–perhaps a few crumbs off the table. However, if rethugs get the presidency and Congress, the new version of the John Birch Society (the Kochs and Teabaggers) will get to implement their policies and will get to appoint several Supreme Court justices. The gerrymandering and court decisions will make sure that you never again win a “moral victory.” Instead of arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of pin, let’s be pragmatic and win the election, then press for policies we want.
You are correct, and it is unfortunate that Senator Sanders did not abandon his youthful identity that was Socialistically founded. He is better defined as a New Deal Democrat, and if I had any influence with him or anyone near him I would push him to define himself so. (this definition of Sanders is not original from me.)
The great American Historian Barbara Tuchman had come to the conclusion after Nixon that it was time to have the US adopt the Parliamentary System of Government. I suggest those interested in our US political challenges read: “Should We Abolish the Presidency” found in Barbara Tuchman’s collected essays: Practicing History.
Your decisions are based on practicalities of our current system that has degraded as have most all of the Presidential Electoral Democracies wherever tried. The battlefield territory that is TV Land, ends now in complete control as a determinate of who will win and who will lose. The Democratic Party seems to have abandoned the field as Republicans who are well funded by the Corporatists eager to dismantle the National State anywhere in the world for the Corporate, or Market State, can now operate all the levers.
What “Too Big To Fail” really means is that the Corporation America is able to use the American citizenry as its reinsurers for the deeply flawed Financial Engineering products that have no connection at all with anything that was of benefit coming from the capitalist system, and in fact are destroying it.
Janet Yellen herself is amazed that the US Petrodollar has not already lost its status as the Reserve Currency of the World. Corporation China and Corporation America are both and all still married to fossil fuels, and energy has been and will be the foundation of whatever Civilization mankind can run.
I have today spoken with Communications Director of GE Shaun Wiggins, asking about why GE isn’t dropping Dynamo Turbines in the Gulf Streams off the NC Coast. They are doing so in Indonesian waters. I am referred to GE Sales now.
If in fact the Legislature leaves the Renewables and Energy Capture Targets in place, while withdrawing the Tax Credits, the Corporatization of all energy employment opportunities will be more secured. Certainly the small business entrepreneurs that leapt to fill the demand for Solarization will become less competitive. Possibly they will be able to use their positions to transition to Tesla Powerwall installation.
For North Carolina there are three things that would isolate and advance its prosperity regardless of whether it is Hillary Clinton, or Bernie Sanders, or Donald Trump that get the War Powers Seat that is the main thing the Presidency now controls. Those are in fact a living wage, minimum wage now seen as 15 dollars an hour. Number two is abundant and cheaper sources of renewable and energy capture that can fast be put in place to give it energy independence from the Petro Industry. (It takes 3,900 drill holes in the US to equal what Saudi Arabia can get from 390. It is a finite resource.) And number 3 is a fully realized port system, in particular the highway expansion of 70 out of Morehead City to I-40, and I-95.
The move to hold NC citizens hostage to Bonds instead of providing what is needed from state and federal taxes is reprehensible. Taking out a loan, is still taking out a loan, and you do not borrow money lightly.
I have replied in this manner because this news site is titled NC Politics, not US Politics, and the budget as it affects Energy policy is on my mind.
This post exemplifies what has sunk my commitment to the Dem party–it has totally hollowed itself out. You are betting on the act of betting. It’s all horse race. You hope somebody else who plays political games will take the hint from Sanders and pretend to be a little more like him just to muster through this next election cycle.
But the problems we are facing are truly shocking: untenable inequality, the environmental crisis, the shut down of the democratic process, the police state, and endless war. Clinton doesn’t have the backbone to address those problems, she just doesn’t. Clinton is the smartest and toughest politician on the scene in terms of getting herself elected, but not in terms of facing the kind of radical changes we need to make in our rotted politics and our national life to save ourselves.
I feel for her. I’m a middle aged woman who has been rooting for her my whole voting life, but I am without question voting for Sanders.
There is no way that Sanders, if elected will get to make radical changes. There is a Regthug majority in both the Senate and the House. Clinton is indeed the smartest and toughest politician running for POTUS. Half these diaries and messages I believe are made by trolls.
Sanders acknowledges that no one, not even him if elected President, can alone overcome the corporate dominance of Republican and Democratic senators and congressmen.
The point is that if Sanders is elected, for the first time there will be at least one branch of government pulling things back toward the center. For the last 30 years Democratic Presidents and members of Congress have allowed a steady drift to the right resulting in the extremist government that exists today. There is no counter-balance to the influence of corporate greed because they are all on the take and won’t bite the hands that feed them.
Bernie Sanders will at least introduce the idea of a single-payer health care system into the political arena. Under Obama, for instance, that wasn’t even a consideration that was allowed on the table during congressional deliberations.
Under President Sanders we can be certain that a Constitutional Amendment to reverse Citizens United and end corporate personhood will be discussed openly and widely in Congress and in the news media.
Under President Sanders criminal justice reform will be placed front and center in Congress and before the American people.
Under President Sanders, addressing climate change will be a priority and put into proper perspective as an urgent crisis that this generation needs to deal with NOW.
When these and other issues are raised and hammered home by the President of the United States, the people begin to apply pressure to their elected representatives and things start happening to address them. That’s how Democracy works. The power of the People is REAL.
We can expect none of this to happen if Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden is elected in 2016. Yes, the Supreme Court will probably improve and that’s important. But, that’s about it.
Bernie Sanders offers a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Democrats and the American people to turn this country around.
I firmly believe that Hillary Clinton cannot win the general election, no matter who the GOP nominates. Not under any circumstances whatsoever.
The Dick Morris, Ed Rollins, and Karl Rove types have not even begun to turn their attention towards her yet. They WANT her to win the nomination, as she’s already been fully and completely defined in a VERY negative fashion (i.e. murderer, serial liar, closet lesbian, latte liberal) – and her abject timidity and fear of taking a controversial position on anything at all means she’s going to stay in that position for the entire campaign. She cannot peel off any votes from any constituency that she does not already have in the bag playing defense like that.
That’s also one of the reasons her support is so soft and already declining – playing constant defense is a loser strategy.
But she is going to spend a metric ton of money, and I guess now that you’re officially for Team Clinton you’re going to get your share, Thomas.
Too bad nobody but paid consultants are going to derive any benefit from her campaign at all.
That last comment was written by me, Art Scherer, on my my Mac, on my FB page (or so I thought), but it went out on my best friend’s, and partner of 34 years, Marion O’Malley’s, for reasons beyond my ken.
Thomas, as someone who’s been listening to Bernie for almost ten years on the Thom Hartmann show, I seriously disagree with you. I know you know much, much more than I do about politics, but I think we’re getting ready to go through a sea-change in our national political debate and life. It’s been a generation since the Conservatives got Reagan in, and since then the rich been getting richer, and the rest of us been getting by at best. Bernie’s been saying the same thing for ten years…and the time is right. He agrees with the vast majority of Americans on: the economy, the political (broken) system, education, women’s rights, violence on blacks, so-called trade agreements, hispanics, the environment, global warming, etc., etc., etc. And just like the Brits were astounded that Corbin (spelling? I just heard about him today) became the new leader of his party, I think a lot of Americans are going to be surprised that they LOVE the policies of this Socialist Jew from Vermont.
BUT….Thomas, you are a political heavyweight in this state. And I know you think Hillary’s got a much better chance of winning the Oval Office than does Bernie. But, just like Bernie refrains from speaking ill of Hillary, just in case she’s the nominee, couldn’t you give Bernie the same (i.e.,speak no evil of him or his chances of being elected, just in case he IS the one?)
Bernie’s our best chance to: Keep us out of the really really big Depression (read Thom Hartmann’s CRASH OF 2016); overturn Citizen’s United,whether by Const. Amend. or by Supreme Court nominees; get us national healthcare and free education; women’s (true) rights, etc. etc. etc.
Written with love, respect and admiration of and to you and yours, Thomas,
Art
Once again, a Hillary supporter whose only reason to vote for her is because some “poll” says Bernie, Oh my bad, not Bernie but a socialist can’t win the General. How about giving us a reason to vote for Hillary. You know, maybe, something about her RECORD! You know, like she voted against the war. Oh, my bad, she voted for the war. To all you Hillary supporters I have four words about “Can’t win” candidates — Jesse The Body Ventura!
Also, IMO, Hilary will be making a big mistake if she starts attacking Sanders in any way, shape or form, or if she doesn’t immediately denounce those who do.
Interesting that I’ve heard the “snowball’s chance” line from so many people in the Democratic Party establishment. I think it may be a false (& self-defeating) prophecy with some faulty logic. To paraphrase and alter an earlier comment: I don’t think it’ll happen therefore I won’t try to make it happen.
Obama brought out a lot of rage on the right, & disappointed a lot of people to the left of middle who were ready for bigger, more dramatic change than he delivered. I think they’re still ready for it, & to work for it, & that they can convince moderates & independents that the GOP is too far to the right.
I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election.
But the more I hear about Sanders & how he operates (speech at Liberty University is a case in point), the more I think it can happen. And I’m willing help him try to make it happen.
Have we really gotten to the point where the majority of Democrats want to elect a far left candidate while Republicans want a far right one? Is compromise such a dirty word that anyone with a streak of moderation gets blasted for not being extreme enough?
If anything, Sanders has a more moderate platform as a result of being so populist/anti-corporate. Furthermore, his views are only “extreme” due to how far right we’ve been pushed as a nation in the past decades. Compare our political environment to that of European countries, for example.
He’s also not a partisan candidate, having worked on both sides of the aisle for years as an Independent congressman in order to pass legislation that he thinks will benefit Americans. So, he is definitely a symbol of and will be looking for compromise. But he needs us, the American people, to elect public officials that also believe in compromise in order to get anything done.
Disagree. Disagree. Disagree. Sounds like a paid-for, placed Hillary blog.
You know that Thomas is a political consultant. The establishment pays him well. This blog just gets him out there to the very people he hopes to work for.
That is not true, Chris. I know Thomas well. This is not true of him (other than that he IS a democratic political consultant). He works very hard for us and not for a lot of $ at all, and his heart is in the right place. I admire him. I just think he’s wrong here.
Thomas, I wonder if you’d consider a little back-and-forth on some of these points? There’s of course plenty to talk about with our own state-level races, so maybe not. But if you’re interested in discussing the national primary more, I think there’s room to challenge some of your assumptions. And I know we have a lot of motivated and skillful Bernie supporters who’d be happy to do so. 😉
If nothing else, I think it’s worth considering just how much weight you are putting on that single poll number. There’s a lot of wiggle room there, and it doesn’t strike me as a particularly strong argument re: Sanders’ viability.
There are others who can have this argument more effectively than I can. Perhaps instead of loading so many assumptions into your view you’ll open it up to some discussion. I hope so!
Yes. Some back and forth. You know how much I love you, and always will. But I think you’re dead wrong here.
So let’s think of Democrats who through the years have followed the centrist path into leadership: Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, Bill Clinton and, yes, Barack Obama.. A pretty good line to join. Best of all, by an appeal that pulled a majority together from across the middle, they helped us be a better country.
a better country for who – the 1%? please tell me how Bill Clinton pushing for NAFTA, killing Glass-Stegal, reforming welfare, putting people into prisons, etc – helped us be a better country? Please tell me how Obama continuing with the worst of the Bush policies – and not throwing one single Wall Street bankster in jail – helped us be a better country?
Our country would have been better off with more liberal policies on health care, workers rights, clean air and water, a liberal drug policy, and taking money out of politics (instead of chasing after those Wall Street dollars like Bill Clinton did).
The policies that Bernie Sanders is promoting are supported by a majority of our citizens – they just don’t know it yet, especially when some folks call them “socialist”.
I definitely disagree that the “policies that Bernie Sanders is promoting are supported by a majority of our citizens.” People are more moderate and, for example, don’t support Medicare for all–at this time. If the majority support his policies, let’s see him win in Iowa and SC. Let’s have a primary but not one that includes personal attacks.
By the way, I’ve said I’m voting for Bernie because I’m very progressive, which is not the norm.
Rot! And Democrats continued violent, vicious racism until it was damned near too late. Then, like labor, they smothered civil rights, just like labor and the progressive movements. This move to the middle crap is simply that! You just like the big spending oligarchs who keep the party smothered and inert. A pox on you.
Hillary is corrupt and out for Hillary – she was pro-pipeline and is for the 1% more than the working class – if we want to fight climate change, the economy and social injustice Bernie is the one to get it done – Hillary plays politics too much and has sold a lot of our soul. Also people keep saying Bernie is too liberal – but I am pretty conservative – I am pro life and he is the only candidate that wants to help look fund childcare from conception up and help working mothers and he is very articulate and able to have common ground – he understands some of his ideas are just to big for America right now but if we can work for a common good – he is the only one who is speaking out against the Koch brothers who own NC and our government now – if you are so small-minded to not grasp that he is a viable candidate we might as well not bother with elections. Also Bernie is respected as a member of the Senate – he is not some Ralph Nader as someone eluded too – Hillary is not the answer for America.
How do you know Hillary is corrupt? I see this all the time and cannot recall any time Hillary was convicted of curruption.
To win in the general election, the democratic nominee needs the votes of moderate swing voters and independents. The majority to those moderates and independents won’t vote for someone as progressive as Bernie Sanders. Our focus must be on maintaining a Democrat in the white house, so we can have a Supreme Court nominee who will support campaign finance rules and labor laws.
We can’t have everything we want in a candidate, but we can have most, and Hillary will provide that. Nevertheless, I will vote for Bernie in the primary because I know Hillary will win in the vast majority of primary states. Yes, let’s have a primary but not a bloody one.
Well said Maurice. You hit the nail on the head there. The Democratic party needs a candidate that appeals to the nation as a whole rather than the ideals of one segment of the party. If we adhere to rigid ideological purity tests we fall into the same trap as the Republicans in putting forth candidates who are unelectable on a national scale.
Personally I love Senator Sanders, but I also want single payer healthcare and a min wage like Portland’s. In the real world though, those dont fly.
So lets get Vice President Biden a gay, muslim running mate and win this thing!
The majority of Americans already approve of much of Bernie’s platform. Establishment types like Thomas try to scare off as many folks as possible by using the “socialism” label. Am sure that the moderate tact works well – I mean so many Democratic candidates for Senate did so well in 2014 by running as moderates.
Thomas – it’s very sad that you run away from the platform that the officers and delegates of your party passed. I realize that one way around that nasty fact is to have establishment Dems manipulate party elections so that few progressives can get into a position to vote for the platform at levels higher than the count and district levels. We’ve seen it happen on a smaller scale over the last couple of years – this year it happened on a much larger scale.
Sadly – folks like you have failed to understand that while you might be able to control the money-laundering process, you aren’t going to win elections because the people are abandoning the parties as long as the parties are more concerned with laundering money from big donors through the party and campaigns into the pockets of consultants and vendors. They’ve got better things to do with their time than waste it electing Dems who lie to them at meetings to get volunteers to work for them – then stab them in the back when push comes to shove.
Bernie Sanders is calling for a political revolution. Don’t be surprised to see many Sandernistas change from UNA to Democratic and organize precincts and take over the party. Jim Hunt and others like him can’t live forever – which side of the political pitchforks will you be on?
I think that more independents will vote for Sanders than will vote for Clinton.
Thomas so eloquently demonstrates why Democrats are in the minority in NC and in Congress.
To wit: I won’t do it, because it can’t be done.
And it surely won’t be done as long as you are determined to defeat the candidate who most closely aligns with your declared policies.
I agree, Thomas. You have far too big a reach to be defeatist at this juncture.
You are exactly right, If the candidate you vote for is just as bad as those of the opposing party what is the point ?
The last time Democrats nominated an “un-electable” candidate was George McGovern in ’72. I’ll probably vote for Bernie in the primary, but I don’t expect him to win. Then I will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee. That person will likely be far more attractive to centrist voters than anyone in the Republican field. Bernie Sanders could beat Donald Trump, and probably Ben Carson. Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, and probably Scott Walker could beat Bernie in a head-to-head.
Okay.. you are right. McGovern was cool.. but not right. Bernie is not right either. Everyone knows his ideals and it is up to Congress to pass laws and create policy. The President is nothing without support from Congress. His arm waving and pointing is so annoying.. I cannot imagine having to watch him on TV any longer. It makes me cringe.
I think that we live in different times. There are more methods of communication then before. People pay attention to social media a hell of a lot more too. On top of that, people (across the board but definitely in the middle America or moderate field that people are worried about) are fed up with the income inequality in our nation and corporate influence. Sure, it existed before but things have come to a head.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but I think that nay-saying and predicting an upper limit is self-fulfilling, to an extent. Really, the purpose of Sanders’ campaign is to awaken the American people politically so they are more informed and are more involved in how they are represented. If he gets that done, then he doesn’t even need to win for our country to take the right steps forward. However, if that is accomplished, then he pretty much won’t even need to do anything else as he will automatically get elected. Honestly, I don’t know how you can think that he’d be able to win the Democratic primary (with the issues that he’s running on coming to the forefront of the American consciousness) but somehow lose the general election.
I hope after seeing the continued momentum, the poll numbers, the volunteering, the ever-increasing rally numbers, etc. that you’ll reconsider your decision.
Such a defeatist attitude and disappointing especially one with a platform as you have. We have to change the narrative that socialist is a dirty word. To do that we need voices, voices with platforms to indicate why it is NOT a dirty word and how his platform is a win for the majority middle class. Shame on you for not fighting.
I agree with this. Feels like capitulation, not rational analysis. We need to Go Big! Not sure at all Hillary could beat Trump or whoever…
Shawn , thank you for being the voice of reason, especially in the face of such juvenile commentary.
Well said
I’m sorry for you. I’m not voting the same ol’, same ol’ back in office. Obama went too soft to try and please everyone and now we have a huge mess. Hillary is way to far right for me. Against equal marriage until 2013? No, thank you.
Well said. I’m for Bernie. Winning elections isn’t the main thing. Reversing our slide and saving the planet would be my priorities. To do that, we need to change public opinion in a revolutionary — you might even say educational — way. Which may wind up losing an election en route to wisdom. Though frankly, I think nominating Hillary is likely to lose anyway, and without redeeming social value.
Amen! I am 74 and would gladly vote for Bernie. Seems to me that some of the commenters don’t know the difference between democratic socialism and communist socialism.
I agree with the one who said that Hiliary is toast if the right can get anyone halfway palatable.
John in WS
Everyone seems to be missing the point that Hillary is the one who is non electable. A LOT of non partisan voters do not like her, and many Democrats do not trust her. She is the Democratic equivalent of Jeb Bush, and we see how poorly he is fairing. Thomas is right about one thing though, “Obama had establishment support from the start … Obama’s campaign was based on emotions .. little specifics drove his campaign. Sanders is all about specifics like free tuition and taxing the rich.” I think I will go with the man with the specifics.