Insurance Commissioner Wayne Goodwin is telling the truth on the GOP. After news came out that North Carolina’s insurance rates would be, on average, higher than the nation as a whole, Goodwin told us why. It seems that in their effort to delay and obstruct Obamacare, Pat McCrory and the North Carolina legislature screwed the state’s citizens. Not that they care.
In those heady days right after they took power, the Republican legislature and McCrory wanted to flex their muscles and showcase their ideological purity by thwarting Obamacare. They rejected the expansion of Medicaid that would have provided insurance, at no cost to the state, to 500,000 people. Then, they told the federal government that the state would not set up an exchange to sell insurance, leaving the task to the federal government.
Their arrogant slaps at Obama’s signature program didn’t slow down implementation or make the feds blink. They just cost the people of North Carolina more money. The term “cutting off your nose to spite your face” comes to mind.
Goodwin explains that leaving those people off of Medicaid created a pool of high-risk consumers who would have to purchase health insurance through exchanges. That risk scared off insurance companies, limiting competition and raising rates.
But the General Assembly wasn’t just content to reject Medicaid, they passed a restrictive law that basically forbid the Department of Insurance from helping citizens and businesses better understand the law. And by rejecting state-run exchanges, the Republican leaders prevented Goodwin and his staff from recruiting more providers who would have cut the cost through competition–you know, through the free market.
So McCrory and North Carolina’s legislative leaders joined the national GOP’s obsession with killing Obamacare. The optics are terrible. They don’t have a single message about why they oppose the program other than it’s “Big Government.” What the public is starting to hear, though, is, “We don’t want people to have health insurance.”
The North Carolina Republicans were just the party that cut education, limited women’s health options and raised taxes on the working poor. Now, they are the party that raised insurance premiums, too.
Thomas Mills is the founder and publisher of PoliticsNC.com. Before beginning PoliticsNC, Thomas spent twenty years as a political and public affairs consultant. Learn more >
It will be very beneficial if we stay with the specifics and attempt to exclude the slogans and diatribes such as government takeover, socialism, etc . In addition part of understanding how free markets works which I embrace is the attempt to familiarize ourselves about how certain decision were made when the so call invisible hand did not offer a suitable alternative in previous historical periods of economic challenges . After all free market economics has proven to be an effective system always subject the evolution of its effectiveness even if the measures consider are not intrinsically rooted in its ideology.
shame I was going to move to NC but not after seeing the progressive liberal minds here.
Disney raises ticket prices every year.
Who gave money to elect the state leaders Insurance company, BCBS is a large doner check your facts
Where do you think the Medicaid money will come from once the Feds pull out?
Yet you provide no rebuttal.
Shocker.
You can thank the Dems who have had control of this state for decades for any economic problems.
So many explanations on both sides. There were 85% insured and 15% un-insured. So with the pre-existing clause dropped the insurance will have extraordinary claims and to offset this figure the other 85% have to contribute more. The Feds to the rescue as some cannot pay so the subsidy kicks in (our money) to pay for the non-workers and poor folks. Simple math this is the reason some folks are going from $200 to $800. Kinda like sharing the wealth, often referred to as socialism which looks good on paper but fails miserably.. like the USSR. $20T on the horizon.
I’m new to NC and shocked North Carolinian’s voted for these goons. The article is precise. If I experience a disease in NC I won’t have it treated. I’ll pretend there’s no cure right in the way I pretend there are no Mercedes Benz. I’m not entitled.
NC may want to know that suicide and murder are crimes. I am looking forward to the cases brought against the tea party for holding congress hostage and then to NC for its dismissal of civil liberties.
In an already struggling local Real Estate market and economy I have lost several clients because of North Carolina’s backward tendancies and choices our Governor has made.
I suspect they do enjoy screwing their fellow North Carolinians…
Tennessee also opted out of creating their own exchange and they also rejected the expansion of Medicaid. Tennessee rates are the lowest in the nation according to the survey I’ve seen (Kaiser). Maybe there is more to this than what is being postulated.
That Kaiser report was for one particular sub-group. I agree there is much more to the rate levels than whether states opted out of the medicaid expansion, but the people not covered by that expansion are increasing the rates.
The most responsible action is to look at the law line-by-line and do what is best for the American people. The rhetoric needs to get toned down on both sides so we can do what is effective.
” Tennessee rates are the lowest in the nation according to the survey I’ve seen (Kaiser).” …so you are taking the word of a single survey put out by a major health insurance company? Isn’t it plausible that the survey was structured to promote their own self interests?”
FWIW, might want to read up on TennCare, which is largely the reason why the rates are lower, not the private insurance companies.
The Kaiser referred to is the Foundation – it is not the insurance provider…
I don’t know one single person who has checked out Obamacare that is happy w/ what they found out.
1. “Current policy cancelled because it does not meet criteria of the ACA”. Deductible increases by $2500, premiums increase 65% w/ ACA.
2. Current policy not available in 2014. Replacement plan-wait for it-$11K deductible, $567. premium each month
3. Married couple-old plan 100% coverage with $545 monthly, new plan under ACA 80% coverage for $945. monthly.
Yup, it’s better and affordable too. NOT
Go get um, Keith.
Goodwin and The NC Insurance Commission IS INDEED Responsible for the rates. Below was taken from their website.
The Life & Health Division is primarily responsible for the regulation, review, approval and disapproval of all life, health, credit insurance, annuity, long-term care, and Medicare Supplement policy forms and rates to be used in North Carolina. The division is also responsible for the registering of charitable or educational organizations that issue annuities;, the licensing of Third Party Administrators, Multiple Employer Welfare Arrangements, Viatical Settlement Providers; and compliance review of non-financial operational policies and procedures for HMO and PPO plans.
OB Ban: what you cited would normally be true *EXCEPT* the NC General Assembly passed and Governor McCrory signed Senate Bill 4 which *exempted* NCDOI’s usual procedures as it relates to the ACA. That is referenced in the Thomas Mills blogpost and in editorials over the last 10 days in Charlotte, Greensboro, and Raleigh.
Thanks for stopping by, Commissioner.
This article is simply untrue and another blame game. The insurance marketplaces, and the subsidies that go along with them, will be available in every state and the District of Columbia. But the Medicaid expansion, which serves people making less than 133 percent of the federal poverty line ($31,322 for a family of four), was made optional by the Supreme Court. As of now, only 26 states are likely to participate in it come January.
What makes this particularly troublesome for the law (and, more to the point, for the uninsured) is that there are no subsidies for private insurance for people making less than the poverty line. So if you’re poor and in a state that hasn’t accepted the Medicaid expansion, you’re out of luck.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the HUGE rate increases we have seen for folks’ existing insurance in North Carolina. Nor does it have ANYTHING to do with the number of providers in the exchange (we are participating in the exchanges). Only 26 states have opted to participate in the Medicaid Expansion.
Sorry, OB. You are just wrong on most of your points.
The Government and some Big Business are jokes
Thanks, Paleotek, for some well-informed and well thought out responses.
It seems that only Blue Cross Blue Shield is participating and I requested quotes and frankly they are way up there. I can’t afford them. I make to much for medicaid and to much for any subsidies. I guess I will opt out and hope I don’t face a penalty for that. The cheapest I was quoted was $550 a month and the highest was $900. Thanks McCrory for screwing me over many times. Why don’t all of you apply to the exchange and pay the premiums. You don’t care about the citizens of North Carolina, only your cronies in politics and the huge salaries that you get. Try living on a fixed income and pay for insurance, rent, utilities, etc. and see how you fare.
Hi Barbara,
Unfortunately, you will need to obtain coverage by January 1st 2014 or face a penalty. However, when completing an application on the Exchange, you have the option of using an advance tax credit (for the year in which coverage is provided)— which can be applied towards the cost of the premium. You can choose between $0-max tax credit to apply to the premium, which will lower your costs upfront.
I hope this helps!
I’ve seen this act before, Anytime my 2 year old doesn’t get his way he does the same thing.
The most ridiculous part of this situation is 80 years of government encroachment on the healthcare industry on behalf of Big Pharma, Big Insurance and general fascism which both parties have supported. The only correct action is to roll back government intrusion.
http://docs4patientcare.org/_blog/Resources/post/A_Brief_History_of_the_Result_of_Government_Intervention_in_Healthcare/
Let’s see:
If Republicans wanted people to have health insurance, why have they CONSTANTLY opposed Medicare, Medicaid, and worked to defund those programs when they couldn’t get rid of them?
You mean the State Republicans which did NOTHING to create jobs in North Carolina since taking over the General Assembly and have actually hundreds of state employees?
You mean State Republicans who hang out with Mr Pharma himself, Richard Burr?
You mean the Republicans who happily signed on to George Bush’s Prescription Drug unfunded mandate on the states?
You really need to try harder. This is embarrassing even by NC Republican standards.
“So McCrory and North Carolina’s legislative leaders joined the national GOP’s obsession with killing Obamacare. The optics are terrible. They don’t have a single message about why they oppose the program other than it’s “Big Government.” What the public is starting to hear, though, is, “We don’t want people to have health insurance.””
You CAN’T be serious. Republicans don’t want the people to have health insurance?
Maybe it’s that Republicans don’t want to see their constituents lose their job to Obamacare employer mandates. There’s a reason they were delayed until, conveniently, after the 2014 mid-terms.
Maybe it’s that Republicans don’t want their constituents to have their work hours cut to less than 30 hours a week, thus slashing their incomes by 25%.
Maybe state Republicans didn’t want to kowtow to Big Pharma and Big Insurance, who continue to affect policy in Washington with their tens of millions of dollars in buying national policy.
Maybe Republicans (rightly) object to the idea that government is compelling We the People to purchase a product that they may not want or need, in complete contradiction to everything that Liberty means.
Maybe Republicans didn’t want to see the cost of care spike, which is projected to occur when 60 million + people are added to insurance rolls.
Maybe your readers need an author that will inject a hint of honest journalism into his writing. I’m not a Republican, but that doesn’t prevent me from seeing the blatant reasoning being employed by Republicans in DC and Raleigh.
Wait, they didn’t want those things, so they punished their constituents with higher rates, and made it harder for those who wouldn’t be able to get insurance through their job to get it at all? That doesn’t make sense. The proper way to address these issues is by fixing the flaws in the law, not punishing constituents and shutting down the government. As for not wanting insurance, anybody refusing it for that reason is just stupid. Most people I know who are uninsured either can’t afford it or have pre-existing conditions. The law fixes the latter issue, but NC republicans have ensured that the former will still be without insurance.
OK, Keith, I got game. Republicans are going ballistic opposing national implementation of a health insurance plan ORIGINATED BY REPUBLICANS that bends over backwards TRYING TO PRESERVE FREE MARKET INSURANCE. Yes, by their actions, Republicans oppose what every developed nation considers fair health insurance. Now, I’m weasel wording there, because I have some insight into the current workings of the US insurance industry, and I (and the World Health Organization, among many others) feel that the current system is not fair, not efficient and (my opinion, not WHO’s) not moral, while the ACA is a huge step in the right direction on all three counts.
So, let’s take a cursory look into your Republican talking points, er, I mean, arguments:
>Maybe it’s that Republicans don’t want to see their constituents lose their job to
> Obamacare employer mandates. There’s a reason they were delayed until,
>conveniently, after the 2014 mid-terms.
OK, I’m a small business type, and I’ve created two high paying full time jobs this year, and am recruiting for a third. I say the job-killer argument is a sham. The very biggest tax cut corporate American could dream of is a single payer system, where they are off the hook for providing health benefits. I have looked into health plans, because I care about my employees. For a small company, I have a choice of being ripped of multiple ways for crummy insurance, but bascially, group health insurance is impossible. ACA helps out a lot with that. If you want to carry the flag for fast food restaurants that don’t want to provide any benefits to employees, we can have that conversation. Go get your talking points. ACA will help me recruit and maintain quality employees. I’m in!
>Maybe it’s that Republicans don’t want their constituents to have their work hours
>cut to less than 30 hours a week, thus slashing their incomes by 25%.
Dude, what are you, like a caricature of a pizza baron? I’m hiring knowledge workers for the long term. ACA is good for me. You want to live in a low wage, no benefit society? Might I suggest Somalia? Sunny, low taxes, lots of guns, you’ll love it! Go get your examples of companies that are cutting hours, and I’ll show you a list of bad companies to work for. And I will reply with a list of companies that can live with ACA, or can profit from it.
>Maybe state Republicans didn’t want to kowtow to Big Pharma and Big Insurance,
>who continue to affect policy in Washington with their tens of millions of dollars in
>buying national policy.
Now this just makes you look either stupid or disingenuous. Please proceed with this argument, I’d love to hear a coherent exposition of your thesis. Please provide examples of these moral exemplars.
>Maybe Republicans (rightly) object to the idea that government is compelling We
>the People to purchase a product that they may not want or need, in complete
> contradiction to everything that Liberty means.
Now my folks shed blood for this country well before 1776, and I have a profound appreciation and respect for the Constitution. But ACA is the law of the land, it’s been found to be constitutional by a conservative supreme court, and just what are your credentials to second guess that? Let me paraphrase your argument “Waaaahh!” The ACA makes every effort to preserve a free market in insurance in this country (something that has been quite successfully terminated in most, but by no means all (please, let’s talk comparative health care systems!) developed countries) . And your argument against this is “Because freedom!”. Sorry, that doesn’t cut it. There are excellent reasons why the ACA cracks down of freeloaders on the insurance system, I’ll be happy to explain them at length if you are interested.
>Maybe Republicans didn’t want to see the cost of care spike, which is projected to
>occur when 60 million + people are added to insurance rolls.
I must admit, this one bothers me a bit. Do you believe this? Why do you believe this? Do you understand how insurance works? This is just a moronic statement. A key principle of insurance is shared risk for mutual benefit. Expand the pool, and the costs average, and generally go down. They would only go up if a huge pool of unserved needy citizens are allowed to join the pool. Are you arguing that this hypothetical pool of needy citizens should remain unserved? If so, I say your are arguing for an immoral position. I’m sure it must come as a surprise to you, but the rates in most states have gone DOWN in response to ACA. Big Insurance is ecstatic over millions of new customers. Let me reiterate: ACA is providing more healthcare to more people for less money. How is this bad? Or are you just trumpeting that age old conservative FUD (first recorded in Egyptian hieroglyphs circa 4000 BCE , although there is a vicious academic debate raging over some cave paintings in Spain) “if change, then BAD!” Pony up, Keith, why is this the case?
So, bring it on.
PS: I made up the hieroglyph part. Which parts did you make up, Keith?
Paleotek, I have to acknowledge that you have made the most coherent, accurate points I’ve seen in a while.
What many people don’t truly seem to understand is that the ACA is part of a much (much!) bigger picture. Many initiatives are helping flip the US healthcare industry on its head and compel the industry to drive towards patients’ *wellness* (i.e., getting and staying healthy— *not* giving pills, procedures, labs and numerous services with no end in sight). Think ACOs, Meaningful Use, ICD-10 transition, etc. So many get all wrapped up in the financial/”free-market” part and lose sight of the fact that healthcare is first and foremost about *health* not *money*.
Any truly fiscally-conservative person doing their research (and not relying on memes, internet rumors, or US news for that matter) would back the ACA in a heartbeat if they realized how much we as taxpayers AND private individuals pay to prop up a health industry that is quite honestly, driven by volume of service (e.g., the more visits, the more money— regardless of whether you’re getting better or not). Providers have increased the mark-up on services and supplies for many reasons, including because it’s the max amount that the insurance company will pay. (Yeah, that band-aid they just billed your insurance $20 for? It cost $2.).
The pharma and device industries have also responded by increasing the costs of their products. However, these costs are affected by other factors as well (including regulatory costs which is a whole ‘nother discussions), but I digress…
A huge burden on the taxpayers is also incurred in caring for those that aren’t insured (think “I left that strange chest pain so long that by the time I went to the emergency room ($$$) I had to have a triple bypass ($$$$$$)… and no, I don’t have a job or any assets so there’s no way I can ever pay for any of this”). It blows my mind that this never makes people at least pause and wonder how much emergent care costs us (think “billions”). Some hardballers would argue “Deny them care! We shouldn’t have to pay because they don’t have their lives in order!” Okay, legally you can’t deny emergent care (up to the point of stabilization). Morally speaking that is messed up. . I could digress into another side discussion about how, if people have healthcare, you could (1) avoid the exponential costs of emergent care, and (2) you provide an opportunity for intervention in the case of health-destructive lifestyles (think drug abuse) that ultimately result in a lower-cost care continuum AND reduces things such as unemployment/job-loss, crime, etc. (all of which also have socio-economic impact).
The really baffling thing is that more folks could have access to Medicaid (well, not in NC) OR competitive and regulated health insurance. For the latter, this means individuals take on the financial burden that might otherwise be incurred by taxpayers. Yes, Medicaid is publicly-funded, but budgeting in such a program results in management of said budget and hence services (and hence quality of care). It’s rather difficult to manage or mitigate something which you have no control over (i.e., uncovered seeking care when they’re at their very worst and unlikely to repay some/all of the costs).
Sorry if any typos, it’s late and I’m tired. I hope I was clear in the above and happy to clarify on any points I’ve made. These are my insights from working/living in the healthcare industry for over 10 years, including a stint with the UK’s National Health Service, and in US commercial and federal sectors.
Hi DaintyTrog,
Thanks for your reply. I’m already a huge fan of yours. I think you are absolutely correct that most people have no idea how dynamic healthcare in the US will be in the next decade. I concur, wellness is the goal, and the focus in delivery of healthcare here has rather missed that point these last few decades. But, the times, they are a’changing (at least, I’m optimist enough to hope so, anyway)!
I am also in complete agreement with your discussion of emergent care. The US use of emergency care is a national disgrace. Malcolm Gladwell, in his book, What The Dog Saw, talks about an indigent guy who consumed $200,000 in healthcare costs in a year. That covers quite a few families, like, mine for 10 years. And, as you suggested, but I will shout, “ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE IS A MORAL ISSUE!” You can’t pretend to be ethical while saying tax cuts to the rich are more important than healthcare to a child. The rich love their tax cuts, this is true, but they don’t expire without them.
It’s worth re-iterating your points (please pardon my poor paraphrase):
>1) Emergency care is atrociously expensive
>2) Preventive medicine is extremely cost effective, but scarce to the needy
>The really baffling thing is that more folks could have access to Medicaid
>(well, not in NC) OR competitive and regulated health insurance.
Your thesis is so spot on, and could only have been written by someone with time in the trenches. I agree. I am baffled why healthcare cannot be perceived as a MORAL issue in the US. Does the need to prevent Scary Brown People from getting FREE HEALTHCARE ON MY DIME so trump the need for people to provide healthcare to their own families? The Republican legislators denying health insurance to prove a point ARE KILLING PEOPLE. That is WRONG, morally indefensible. I must ask, dear reader, are you OK with that?
Thanks, DaintyTrog, for some front-line insight. I sincerely hope you will continue to share your views here. Best regards.
-Paleotek
PS: Since this is a reply to DaintyTrog, and since I like DaintyTrog a lot, I must dissociate DaintyTrog with any responsibility from the following rant. (DT, not your fault, but I am angry with these morons and I have to spout, please forgive):
Because I am definitely NOT OK WITH KILLING PEOPLE BY MAKING HEALTHCARE UNAFFORDABLE. The NC Legislature has done just that. I am furious, and I will do whatever I can to throw these narrow minded bigots with no social conscience or concept of economics or morality out of office. If you have a conscience, and a brain, you should look into what your legislature is up to. They’re morons, and bigots, who are either dumb or ignorant, but in either case have a very limited respect for human life. Dump these clowns!
Oh goody. A tit for my tat.
“OK, I’m a small business type, and I’ve created two high paying full time jobs this year, and am recruiting for a third. I say the job-killer argument is a sham. The very biggest tax cut corporate American could dream of is a single payer system, where they are off the hook for providing health benefits. I have looked into health plans, because I care about my employees. For a small company, I have a choice of being ripped of multiple ways for crummy insurance, but bascially, group health insurance is impossible. ACA helps out a lot with that. If you want to carry the flag for fast food restaurants that don’t want to provide any benefits to employees, we can have that conversation. Go get your talking points. ACA will help me recruit and maintain quality employees. I’m in!”
The free market has already supplied a solution to your problem. Third party administrators can do in the free market what the government is doing in a forced-participation market. Basically, in a TPA, a single entity takes on the payroll processing (among other administrative tasks) of multiple smaller companies (the organization I’m familiar with specialized in small contracting and construction outfits). By combining the work-forces of those multiple companies under a single umbrella, they are able to provide group benefits for those employees. Such benefits include group insurance, 401k, and reduced rates for unemployment/disability.
Your argument is apparently predicated on the idea that the market is incapable of providing a solution to the fabricated problem you outline above. The truth is that the solution exists without the interference of government.
——————–
“Dude, what are you, like a caricature of a pizza baron? I’m hiring knowledge workers for the long term. ACA is good for me. You want to live in a low wage, no benefit society? Might I suggest Somalia? Sunny, low taxes, lots of guns, you’ll love it! Go get your examples of companies that are cutting hours, and I’ll show you a list of bad companies to work for. And I will reply with a list of companies that can live with ACA, or can profit from it.”
I never said I wanted a “low wage, no benefit society,” but why let that fact interrupt your perfectly incoherent rant. You’ve got a computer; Google it. The list of companies drawing back hours is growing, and they blame their reduction in hours on the expected effects of ACA. 4 days ago, Investors Business Daily printed a list of over 300 employers cutting hours due to ACA; a vast number of them are smaller (county-level) government agencies that can’t locally afford to provide mandated coverage for all employees. It’s one of the benefits to living in BFE – I see what happens to small-town employers first hand. The ACA is death to smaller employers and government agencies.
——————–
“Now this just makes you look either stupid or disingenuous. Please proceed with this argument, I’d love to hear a coherent exposition of your thesis. Please provide examples of these moral exemplars.”
Nearly $50 million in campaign pharmaceutical contributions went to DC politicians in 2012. An additional $240 million was spent on lobbying campaigns in 2012. That’s just Big Pharma. Tack on another $58 million in campaign contributions and $140 million in lobbying dollars from the insurance industry.
What do you believe all of that money is going to DC for? Lemonade stands and popsicles? Corporations don’t just give money away without expectation of RoI, so what is their intent by sending all of that money to Washington?
Connect the dots; it’s not that difficult.
——————–
“Now my folks shed blood for this country well before 1776, and I have a profound appreciation and respect for the Constitution. But ACA is the law of the land, it’s been found to be constitutional by a conservative supreme court, and just what are your credentials to second guess that? Let me paraphrase your argument “Waaaahh!” The ACA makes every effort to preserve a free market in insurance in this country (something that has been quite successfully terminated in most, but by no means all (please, let’s talk comparative health care systems!) developed countries) . And your argument against this is “Because freedom!”. Sorry, that doesn’t cut it. There are excellent reasons why the ACA cracks down of freeloaders on the insurance system, I’ll be happy to explain them at length if you are interested.”
I’ve heard the same idiotic commentary before – “It’s the law. It was found to be Constitutional.” Yada yada, ad nauseum.
So, according to your response above, we (as a nation) have never overturned bad laws before. Seriously. That’s the thrust of your argument? Well, I hate (well, not really, but I’ll say it anyway) to burst your liberal bubble, but eradication of crappy laws happens all the time. Again, Google is your friend. Look around and you’ll find list after list of Constitutionally-supported codified law that was absolute garbage and was subsequently overturned.
Let me paraphrase your argument… wait. Never mind. I can’t, because your argument is so blatantly fallacious that it doesn’t merit further elucidation.
I’m sure there ARE great reasons why the ACA nails freeloaders, but the ACA with all of its constituent elements that penalize non-participation and force people to purchase products they neither want nor need isn’t necessary to exercise that crack-down.
——————–
“I must admit, this one bothers me a bit. Do you believe this? Why do you believe this? Do you understand how insurance works? This is just a moronic statement. A key principle of insurance is shared risk for mutual benefit. Expand the pool, and the costs average, and generally go down. They would only go up if a huge pool of unserved needy citizens are allowed to join the pool. Are you arguing that this hypothetical pool of needy citizens should remain unserved? If so, I say your are arguing for an immoral position. I’m sure it must come as a surprise to you, but the rates in most states have gone DOWN in response to ACA. Big Insurance is ecstatic over millions of new customers. Let me reiterate: ACA is providing more healthcare to more people for less money. How is this bad? Or are you just trumpeting that age old conservative FUD (first recorded in Egyptian hieroglyphs circa 4000 BCE , although there is a vicious academic debate raging over some cave paintings in Spain) “if change, then BAD!” Pony up, Keith, why is this the case?”
I didn’t say the cost of insurance would skyrocket; I said the cost of CARE would skyrocket. In other words, health care spending is going to go up. A lot. Forbes recently posted an article stating that the cost of care to the average family of 4 would increase by more than $7000. Sure, a good portion of that will be paid for by insurance, but with the obscene deductibles and co-pays associated with these cost increases, the average American family is going to come up well short of the $2500 reduction promised by Candidate Obama in 2008.
Squeeze your tube of Liberal Lube and start wiggling your way around these points. I’m going to have a drink and wait…
>The free market has already supplied a solution to your problem.
The free market is a technology. Like all tech, it can be used for good or ill. The free market in insurance does not exist in the US. It’s a heavily regulated series of state monopolies. I could live with that. The two key failures (that no other developed nations allow) are 1) refusal to service existing conditions and 2) widespread denial of legitimate claims.
Those are fundamental flaws with the system. It doesn’t work. The ACA is a great first step towards addressing them.
>Third party administrators can do in the free market what the government is doing in a forced-participation market.
Yes, but it’s not free. There’s a layer of overhead there, and the TPA plans are either quite pricey or fairly crummy, in my experience.
>Your argument is apparently predicated on the idea that the market is
> incapable of providing a solution to the fabricated problem you outline above.
> The truth is that the solution exists without the interference of government.
You nailed it! The free market has failed. It needs a restructuring. I disagree that the solutions exists without government interference. We pay more money and get less healthcare than any other developed nation. Something needs to change. The Democrats implemented the Republicans ideas from the 90s, and it looks like its working. Which is driving the Republicans crazy.
> 300 employers cutting hours due to ACA; a vast number of them are smaller
> (county-level) government agencies that can’t locally afford to provide
>mandated coverage for all employees. It’s one of the benefits to living in BFE –
> I see what happens to small-town employers first hand. The ACA is death to
>smaller employers and government agencies.
Hmm, this sounds like a local government issue, not necessarily a big problem with ACA. But that doesn’t really relate to your free enterprise issue. The ACA is not killing small businesses, they’re largely exempt. Maybe ACA needs to be tweaked to provide more flexibility to small governments – oh wait! The Republicans don’t want to fix it, because they want insurance reform to fail, without providing any alternatives. That’s bad politics and bad policy.
>Nearly $50 million in campaign pharmaceutical contributions went to DC
politicians in 2012.
>What do you believe all of that money is going to DC for?
So Big Pharma spends money. And our selfless Rural Radical Republicans are going to stick it to the man by making it harder for citizens to buy their products? That’s no argument.
>So, according to your response above, we (as a nation) have never overturned
> bad laws before.
That’s not my argument. ACA is the law of the land. I think it should be changed, improved, adapted, and expanded. But your team is trying to sabotage the implementation of the law. In many states, and at many levels. There’s no recent precedent for that, and it show a contempt for the rule of law, IMHO. So where are the Republican ideas to improve ACA? It’s been three years, and the Rs have come up with zilch.
>I didn’t say the cost of insurance would skyrocket; I said the cost of CARE
> would skyrocket. In other words, health care spending is going to go up. A
> lot. Forbes recently posted an article stating that the cost of care to the
>average family of 4 would increase by more than $7000. Sure, a good
> portion of that will be paid for by insurance, but with the obscene
>deductibles and co-pays associated with these cost increases, the average
> American family is going to come up well short of the $2500 reduction
>promised by Candidate Obama in 2008.
Speculation. Insurance is how we finance healthcare. Reforming insurance does not necessarily send prices up, but it does affect them. The Forbes article is controversial. I take it as a very good sign that most state exchanges came in lower than expected. And you’re reduced to saying, “ACA won’t even save them $2500.” Well, if it only saves them $500, that’s better than a poke in the eye. How much does the Republican plan save them? Oh right, they don’t have a plan.
You can trot out “because freedom” all you want, but ACA is primarily a policy to remove a system of very bad incentives to financing healthcare. It’s about economics, and the economics are not on your side. Of course, you don’t really have a side, since the Republicans have refused to address healthcare reform. You can defend the current system, but it’s not that defensible, because it’s fundamentally flawed.
*Sigh*… So much nonsense, so little time. I may have to get back to this later. I have a class to teach in 30 minutes, and this iPad makes quoting your drivel that much more difficult.
In the meantime, I’ll hit a few high points without quoting text.
Your first response is a complete non-sequitur. Yes the insurance marketplace is fractured by state monopolies, but that doesn’t address the fact that TPAs can consolidate masses of employees from numerous employers under a single umbrella for coverage discounts. And no matter your argument, the minor percentage of payroll the TPA keeps in fees is worth the price compared to the fees employers face for non-compliance.
TPAs work, and the free market works. Unless you can demonstrably prove that the free market has failed in this arena, you’re just talking out of your arse.
Again, why let facts destroy a perfectly good baseless rant…
To your second point regarding employers that are cutting hours, disregarding the fact (which is what you do) doesn’t disprove the point. Again, this is a non sequitur on your part.
That’s all I can afford for the moment. A room full of students awaits my tutelage. I’ll come back to play later…
This is actually a reply to Keith’s comments below, but it’s here because there is apparently a limit of 4 comments deep with this forum.
>*Sigh*… So much nonsense, so little time.
Interesting ad hominem. It looks to me like I’m talking policy, and you’re stuck at the rhetoric level. However…
>>The free market has already supplied a solution to your problem.
I maintain that your free market does not exist, and that the market that does exist is a failure.
> The free market in insurance does not exist in the US. …
> two key failures …
> 1) refusal to service existing conditions and
> 2) widespread denial of legitimate claims.
Let me add 3 more failures:
3) medical bankruptcies. Health issues have been reported as the single largest cause a bankruptcies. Get sick, lose your house. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN OTHER DEVELOPER NATIONS. And it should not happen here.
4) Overall inefficiency of heterogeneity. The US does not have one healthcare delivery system. It has about eight, depending on how you count. Veterans, Inddians, the old, the poor, employee sponsored, totally private, pay as you go… THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IN OTHER DEVELOPED NATIONS. The financing overhead of this approach is about 20%, and it ends up with lots of denied claims and denied care. This is a failure.
5) We pay more and get less. As a % of GNP, the US share is the highest in the world. And yet, in terms of overall health, we don’t rank in the top 20.
Further, I maintain that your vaunted “free market” in healthcare would be a terrible idea: when you’re implanting devices inside bodies, or dosing with cytotoxic chemicals for months at a time, that should be regulated. The places where there IS a real free market are places I do not want to live, where teeming masses of poor have no healthcare, and the rich have all they can afford.
So, Keith, maybe your free market works out in BFE, but downtown, we demand better.
>that doesn’t address the fact that TPAs can consolidate masses of
>employees from numerous employers under a single umbrella for
>coverage discounts.
I tried to be nice, but let me put it bluntly. TPAs suck. Their availability is spotty, their quality is variable. At my last startup, a very bright guy researched them for months. They were not a realistic option. Maybe you like them. I don’t.
>TPAs work, and the free market works. Unless you can demonstrably
>prove that the free market has failed in this arena, you’re just talking
>out of your arse.
Now you’re getting rude again. I’ve pointed out fundamental flaws in the existing “free market” (which is nowhere near free). If you refuse to acknowledge any flaws with one of the worst systems of financing healthcare in the world, you are either quite ignorant, willfully blinded by ideology, or deliberately disingenous.
Or, in terms you can understand, if you claim the free market in healthcare works in the US, you’re either a dumbass or a liar. (Dumbass is a good word here, because it covers both ignorant and stupid).
>To your second point regarding employers that are cutting hours, >disregarding the fact (which is what you do) doesn’t disprove the point.
Hmm, you’re not really very good at this, are you? I said show me the companies, and you said “small governments”. And I said, hmm, could be a problem there, it’s fixable, but team R doesn’t want if fixed. You said “ACA kills small employers.” I said, no they’re exempt.
See, I think you’re just shilling for the rich. I’m out here walking the walk in the free market. It’s hard, but not impossible. But to win there, you have to be realistic, there’s not much room for ideology. And recognizing that a system has failed is the first step to improving it. It appears you are still in denial that there is a problem.
Whoa Paleotek, way to rip right through that cloud of republican rhetoric. Unfortunately, your arguments sound just like Charlie Brown’s teacher in the eyes of the uninformed. These folks don’t take kindly to truth nor facts thus I’m afraid your responses will go on to live in the back corners and shadows of place in their brains where they store logic. Bravo my friend.
Thanks so much for addressing his talking points. I have a better understanding now! I hope you can share your comments more widely because they really help.
Way to go, Paleotek! You told Keith exactly what needed to be said. Pertinent information about the ACA is hard for the Rethugs to understand, so they make stuff up. Thank you for your reply to him. Hope he learns something, but I doubt it.
So how, exactly, does quoting what business articles, the popular LIBERAL news media, and business leaders say constitute making stuff up?
Seriously. Do any of you liberals actually think for yourselves?
I am curious about the points you make. Can you point me in the direction of some solid studies in a peer-reviewed journal that show the impact of the ACA. I agree that media bias and rhetoric cloud the issue substantially. I would like to read something that reports what you are saying with quality methodologies.
Keith, I am a Republican who thinks for myself. I am a married mother of two. Our family paid BCBS tens of thousands over the years for insurance. Unfortunately, I came down with a chronic, degenerative and incredibly rare disease. All of a sudden, BCBS would insure my healthy husband and two healthy sons, but me? Sorry, ma’am! No insurance for you! Hope dying isn’t too expensive! I do believe in the free markets to solve many problems. But providing health care, under a for-profit system, means a system shot through with immorality. You might not be a Christian, but I am, and there is NO excuse for what happened to us. And what alternative has my political party offered? That would be: Hope dying isn’t too expensive! Too bad about those motherless sons of yours! This isn’t a talking point or ideology; this is real life as for-profit insurance companies were running it before the ACA. I know it’s not perfect and I know it has flaws. But let’s fix them through Constitutional means. Playing by the rules USED TO BE what the Republican party stood for. I’m changing my party registration to Independent.
From a conservative…….well said.
Loved reading your reply to him,Well said!
wish everyone would stand up and give the truth ,,we need help bad in NC the web of foul lies are many and the people do not understand…sad here and heartbreaking…so many without healthcare..thank you for speaking up ,you should be in Congress!
I see what you’re saying. And what you’ve said is deep and comes from a good place. But you really think that’s what those guys are really feeling in trying to shutdown Obamacare? If so, America would be great again. But I don’t think politicians think logically like folks who work real jobs day in and day out.
Strange–I don’t remember a time when republicans showed that they cared anything about costs to working people.
Thanks for your intelligent comments. It’s about CONTROL people. Not healthcare.
Spoken like an off-the-scales PUB…It has nothing to do with control!!! It’s trying to help those who don’t have insurance, those who have existing conditions, those with children in school to age 26, etc… Check out Heathers comment above, she and others like her are for me the best thing that could happen for those in crisis, and who’ve been dropped from their insurance!!
Employers were already reducing hours because workers have no protection from the state. Americans were already paying for the un-insureds. The law is no different than the DMV laws requiring everyone to carry auto insurance with certain coverages; in the end –keeping everyone insured and at affordable rates. If anyone cared about workers losing their hours, then enact worker protection laws; change NC from a right to work state and give the workers a chance to defend themselves against unscrupulous rapacious profit-taking employers.
Maybe you need to do some basic research instead of acting like a fool
Except that he’s right, our legislature turned down the money, didn’t set up exchanges, so the poor people in the state are screwed. Companies are already cutting hours–Walmart is a good example. Republicans kowtow to wall street and the Koch brother. Democrats too, mostly to wall street and hollywood. Cost of care has been going up 10% annually for over a decade, as have insurance premiums. The ACA isn’t perfect, but it’s a good start on fixing a system that doesn’t provide real healthcare for all.
ACA is saving me around 8,ooo a year and lots of my friends are saving a lot of money. Politics makes me sick but the ACA is for real. It’s save self employed and people having to purchase their own insurance a lot of money. Go to the bcbsnc website and see if you can figure it out.
Keith, there is no evidence that jobs are being lost to ACA implementation. As a matter of fact it might end up being exactly the opposite. Just yesterday WalMart announced that they are bringing their part time employees up to full time and giving them health care benefits or allowing them to get coverage through the exchanges.
Disney just hired 400+ part-time employees as full time so they could take advantage of the ACA. Any business that would cut employee hours is cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Larger insurance pools reduce the per unit cost. They do not increase the per unit cost.
The “Affordable Health Care Act” does not reduce workers hours. People do that.
And I will stop doing business with all the companies that use this as an excuse to cut workers hours.
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. . . . . . . .
Good stuff, thanks for reporting that. I’ve been trying to pay attention to the insurance story, but I totally missed that my insurance will be higher thanks to the GOP. I hope to repay the favor to the rural radicals running roughshod through Raleigh someday.
And thanks to Wayne Goodwin, for telling it like it is. This is an important story: kitchen table stuff, and grand example of putting ideology over governing. You have to wonder, with the long list of ridiculous laws that just took effect, do these guys even take governing seriously? As a group are they stupid? Terribly uninformed? Really misguided? Totally irresponsible? Trying to make everyone hate the government as much as they do? Actively working to disengage citizens from the political process? All of the above?
I can buy the argument that they’re willing to double down on getting more white folks (and less minorities, if at all possible) to the polls to hold on to power. That’s a repulsive strategy to me, but it’s at least sane. And I get the shenanigans the McCrony is pulling, handing out patronage and fat consulting checks to empty suits. But this, this is just political malpractice. If it gets wide play around the state, I suspect a deep visceral anger would be the result. It’s dumb, it’s un-Christian, it’s hateful. It’s all too typical.
Is it too late for NC to opt in to Medicaid help and sign up?
No, they can opt in. After the current debacle, I expect they will. Let’s hope so.
What people are not taking into consideration is that if Washington takes over health care it will control more than 70 percent of the economy. Washington will control more than 70 percent of every dollar spent
T Bell, can you provide some context to your comment? The federal government is implementing policies to drive positive change in the healthcare industry, not implement a massive takeover. The ACA is not about nationalized or even socialized healthcare.
Respectfully, to suggest that the federal government will be controlling 70% of the economy is quite a stretch and a distortion of what is really happening.
DaintyTrog this is about govt control. These are not positive changes. These are laws designed to get your money and not actually do a whole lot for you. The thing wrong with the health insurance industry is the ‘insurance’ part. You will be paying for things you will never use to cover the person next door who doesn’t give a rat’s backside if they smoke or drink. And do you really want the IRS involved in your private health care? I don’t know how old you are but if you think this is a positive event just take a look at Britain or Canada and see how long wait times are to see a doctor. A lot of those people come here for surgeries and other medical care that takes months to get in those countries.
lived in the UK for over 4 years. I worked there, was on a work visa and paid into the national health ins plan they have. Not a single time did I ever have to wait for any emergency situation and for regular checkups etc was far shorter a wait than here in the states. For vision or dental longest I waited was maybe 2-3 week, here have to make an appt. a month or more out easily and it costs way way more. So before you harp on what the UK does and how it is trust me I lived there and what you speak of is in no way the norm from my first hand experience in the system
I also lived in the UK for time enough to be a recipient under the NHS.
The difference is the NHS comes out of employee tax. The law here in the United States approved by the Supreme Court is one where we are required to have health insurance. Either our employers are required to provide it or we, yes, must pay.
Why not?
If our health care law was set up that our employee taxes paid for this then you would have socialized medicine wherein those employed would be paying into a kitty for everyone to be served by it.
Instead, without everyone paying in the free market for a health insurance policy, those employed and have health insurance end up paying higher premiums, deductibles and co-insurance costs because everyone else has the freedom to walk into any emergency room and be seen and served without health insurance. What isn’t socialized about that?
tell me.
Beverly, that’s the way insurance works..the risk is spread and the cost overall is lowered. Your life insurance, car insurance and home insurance works the same way. I expect you know nothing about health care in either country you mentioned but let me tell you this, the vast majority of Brits and Canadians love their system. It works for everyone and I assure you, it’s only the very wealthy who come here..emergencies are handled quite well in both countries, thank you. For elective surgery, that’s scheduled just like anywhere else.
washington does not control healthcare, it is still private, the insurance companies have controlled health care for many years and still do even under this new law, but since NC has opted out of ANYTHING, we here in NC will continue to see our premiums rise, as they have every year even before the affordable care act, because we are paying for all the uninsured who still get sick and have emergencies, shame on them!
Exactly Elizabeth!
http://www.ncdoi.com/LS/Documents/Summaries/LegislativeSummaries_2013.PDF
I must share this!!!
Washington is not taking over health care. This is a free-market solution mandated by the government but otherwise run by the private sector.
Mr. Mills you do not understand free markets. Whenever the govt is involved there is no such thing as a ‘free market’. My advice to you is not to get the insurance and pay the fine. A lot of people are going to be in this boat. You’ll still get care and if you end up with some disease or accident you can always purchase the insurance when you need it. But think about this – a govt big enough to give you everything, is big enough to take everything away. A free market would be that insurance companies are allowed to sell across state lines, just like for car insurance. And just like car insurance you should be able to pick and choose what you want to pay for. Why does a 60yr old woman need maternity care?
Some other thoughts. Just because you have insurance does in no way guarantee that you will get health care. You might be able to afford the premium, but the co-pays and deductibles will be off the scale. And good luck finding the one doctor in your area who takes your insurance. We need to cut out the middleman, the insurance company. You would be better off putting that premium in your bank account and paying cash for your care. This whole thing is about control of the people and totally not the American way. Socialism doesn’t work because eventually you do run out of other people’s money. Plus there are many examples world wide where this form of government is collapsing. I think there will eventually be a vibrant underground economy especially when it comes to health care.
This is one of the most vapid responses I have read. What is lawful about my insurance increasing to pay for everyone who doesn’t have it? The only detail about the government here is that it is a law regulated only through the fines for those who do not pay. How the fine is administered is surely to that citizen’s particular State.
This law isn’t socialism. What is socialist to my experience is a state employee system. No one argues that one down in NC. THAT is socialism: by and for the people of the state of NC as employees for the State. Socialism. What’s my point of reference?
The UK, Sweden and the Netherlands. Each have a national health service but the main difference between their’s and what you’re having a challenging time recognizing is that in those three countries the citizens of those countries pay for their nation’s health care through TAXES. Everyone here seems to be missing this point.
If you’re earning a living, if you’re employed, look at your pay stub. Look at what is taken out. See what is and what is not itemized. There’s FICA, Social Security (I do want every penny I have put into that account back), Medicaid, and then Federal Tax and then State Tax. It’s these last two that are not itemized and I would like them to be. I would like to know what in the hell beans am I working for? Am I working to pay more military might? Am I working for clean air and water? Am I working for a strong education system? Am I supporting jobs going overseas? Am I padding the pockets of pundit contract workers? What am I giving my taxes to? PLEASE TELL ME. It’s not healthcare, that’s for sure. That would be socialism according to dimwits and that is where the government and everyone in the USA would lose money because why? Because YOU WOULD HAVE A TAX BREAK.
But I want to know what my working time and effort, what I pay gasoline for, what I reduce my costs against, what it’s all for. Please let me know. Let me know I’m not forced to pay for things that are against my beliefs and I’ll say whew, whew.
If you’ve actually visited the ACA website and looked at the plans then you’d know that the co-pays aren’t through the roof unless you choose the lowest and cheapest level. Even those plans ensure that when people go to the hospital for an emergency those costs won’t be shouldered by others.
The ACA made it illegal for insurance companies to deny claims and refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions. They require that the CEOs that take your money and actually put most of it towards your care and not into an off shore account to pay for their 5th home in the South of France. They are making the insurance industry juggernaut actually provide the services they sell. The whole point of government is to protect the people. This industry has been swindling us for years and it’s about time that the government stepped in and actually did its job. This isn’t a single payer system. We still pay private insurance companies.
Those that are insured are already paying for those that aren’t. I think it’s kind of obvious that everyone at some point in their life will need medical attention of some kind. In essence what this law does is require everyone to pay for services they use (as a percentage of what they earn) which makes everyone’s costs go down. And if everyone has access to preventative care then the long term money saving incentives are HUGE.
The Health Care industry already receives HUGE subsidies (those are YOUR tax dollars) even though they are profitable without them. The ACA cut the amounts of subsidies they receive which should, IN THEORY, make government hating Tea Baggers happy. Everyone that makes under $250K a year will save under this law. Not to mentions, millions of people (many children) that have gone without insurance will now have it. The only thing unfortunate about this law is that it is just a tiny step in the right direction. Tiny because the president compromised. It’s embarrassing how far behind the rest of the first world we are on this matter. Our access to care that won’t bankrupt us is par with second and third world countries. And that is just STUPID.
The only thing our founding fathers feared more than big government was big business. After all, if a few hold all the wealth then they will be the ones best represented by our government, because they can afford to buy our government. And THAT is the opposite of democracy. The free market experiment should not be at the expense of the poor and most vulnerable. They deserve representation as well.
“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” Thomas Jefferson
So many people are finding out how much the GOP lied about Obama Care, the conservative bloggers who have an agenda to make money have spewed out so much dis information based on their hatred of a black president. If ACA was as bad as they say, then why so they harp against it so much (thou doest protest too much) let it hit the fan and the president will have egg all over his face and become the worst president in history, since they want to destroy him? why wast tax payer money trying to repeal it. It’s because the don’t want America to know just how badly they lied about it especially before the up coming midterm election.
this desperation speaks volumes to the enormity of barrage of deception the GOP has been inflicting against Americans and manipulating the electorate who don’t find out for themselves the truth or who like to live in a world where you blindingly trust your elected officials and the conservative talking heads and the bloggers. I hate manipulation and the biggest manipulators are the Republicans in congress. They were once a party I could believe in but I found them telling too many lies, and when the truth came I was so disappointed in what they had done I was ashamed. From water gate to Iran gate to arms to Osama Bin Laden (when he was fighting Russia) to the Iraq war and WMD that were not there, the level of manipulation the dirty tricks and the lies have soured me on the GOP. They know how to push all the buttons from prejudice to fear to rage and knee jerk responses etcetera.
they are like the tea party of old, who dressed as Indians; they posed as something they were not, to deceive and to lay the blame on the native Americans they despised. Just like they do things now and try to blame it on the president, who they despise, pretending they care so much about middle class and the poor who Jesus told us to take care of as though they were us in the same need they are in. Some of the GOP have farms and are taking millions i farm subsidies yet they cut food stamps from need children. that is not Christlike. the excuses is a lie for such little fraud the make this excuse to starve little children. In the military we left no man behind ever! But them most of the GOP never served our country a day in war time or time in our military.
I can’t listen to their false sanctimony anymore. they hate when Jesus tell us to love, they take when Jesus tells us to give, they malign where God tells us not to have such guile in our mouths. they demonetize people, where Jesus says to love mercy. I no longer see Christ in any of them The Dems have their problems, but they love people like God commanded. they honor truth more than the GOP an I can no longer stomach the ways of the GOP anymore. I know where the Dems are coming from even when they are in error but the GOPs dishonest gives me great pause. I never know where they really stand as they vacillate like a fan. they waste my tax dollars on nonsense and bring our country closer to demise as though the not only want the president to fail, but are willing to take our country with that fall to prove a political and ideological point. God calls that arrogant pride which he hates. they hate the truth that an African American is in the office and doing a great job to boot. he’d got the desire for democracy around the world at an all time high radical nations disarming chemical weapons, continues to rid the world of top terrorists leaders and is admired by many world leaders for his strong stance (it’s weak to go to weapons right away it takes courage and great power to restrain oneself and should not be misconstrued as weakness. It’s paying off for the US.
Truly the real problem is the transparency … Do you or for that matter does any “average US citizen” know how much it is cost to perform a procedure? Whether it the medical community as whole or even the “PRIVATE Insurance Companies” NO one will SAY how much some thing cost.. Think about as average citizen you can compare how much it costs to get your tire repaired on your car, or how much it costs move , etc, but when it comes to HEALTH CARE , NO such thing, you call up places and ask them how much something cost and the prices RANGE so widely ,or they simple say dont give out that information.. And the truth of the matter is this –everyone seems to be like I dont’ want to pay so much more for a “insurance” against getting ill, but the average extended ED visit 10-20K , so you pay 200 -800 a month to protect from paying out 10- 20K one time.. i mean geez for some reason we have NO Problem paying 100.00 up to 200 dollar a month for what is really already “public” free services (TV) , on cable.. and what do you get out that . does it save your life does it give you a chance to see your grandkids grow up? the thing to say don’t want government involve.. than fine than make 100% FREE MARKET – that it costs everyone to show up in the ER NOTHING GETS fixed till you pay up front .. no billing.. just like buying a ticket to a movie.. you pay to get in.. you pay to see the doctor you pay for every procedure right than.. – And forget about Insurance.. pay directly to the Primary physician like a annual fee so that way you a perm patient.. AND NO MORE STATES controlling. that entire HEALTH CARE is NATIONALIZE you as average person get to choose who wan to see when you want to see, and that doctors don’t have to work in your state they don’t have to be license they just get one license.. And allow for Remote CARE though technology to reduce costs, for providing care. in essence BE DISRUPTIVE for your Health CARE .. and get this.. how about this.. – the REASON THINGS are such strain on the US is cause we ARE TERRIBLE we are killing ourselves.. we live longer but we NOT TAKING Care of our bodies.. we BELIEVE that somebody will fix it for us a Pill or end of LIFE salvation for all the terrible things we do to our bodies.. THIS PROBLEM IS MORE than just OBAMA CARE this is about US as USA citizens.. do we help the person who is constantly poor and can’t get a job whose stress levels go up which harden the heart arteries which in turns to hypertension which puts more stress.. Do we help the even the well off person who has a need for a particular procedure but because the PRIVATE INSURANCE wont pay for it they can’t get it done, or even they can pay CASH for it it still can’t get it done because it is out of state because of “RULES” to keep from competition from outside groups destroying the “little” doctor in unfair competition , they can’t get it done . In the end what is this about — either you believe is HEALTH is a RIGHT or you don’t.. at the same time if you truely believe this is every person for themselves. that is such a mistake, we are all connected , we all have reason to work together and one thing that effects us all is HEALTH.. it drags our economy down like no other.. for every person who won’t get a flu shot means that so many others end up with the flu , for every person who does not get vaccines it puts us ALL TO RISK , for the food industry driven by our need as consumers for “SWEETS AND SALT AND FAT” we put ourselves all at risk. And to assume that what the gov’t gives us they can take away.. lets put this way .. tell that to the Enron Employees, or the Lehman Brothers Employees or the Arthur Anderson Employees, put that to every single Person who has worked or purchased services or products from PRIVATE COMPANIES, they all can “disappear” in a flash.. OUR GOVT is here to stay in one form or other to provide services we ALL NEED ,
A free market would let you buy hookers and cocaine with impunity. We don’t have a free market. There are laws, policies, regulations, tariffs and subsidies setting limits and controls on the market — all created and enforced by the government. The ACA is no different. You want to live in a free market? Move to the South Pole.
someone (about every other person) doesn’t understand socialism.
okay, bubble pop, the United States is IMPERFECT, I can stand politicians about as long as I can stand sales people. What is the difference?
There’s already an underground economy if you want an abortion.
Wait, you think if you put your health insurance premium in your bank account that would be better than having insurance? AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
The middle man is the private insurance company, sweetheart. Intelligent countries (eg, every other industrialized nation aside from the US) have socialized, single payer health care, and guess what? THEY ARE FREE PEOPLE, in fact, they are freer than we are, free to choose decent jobs not based on benefits, free to worry about their health when they are sick instead of worrying about bankruptcy, free to see a doctor when if they are poor. I see you parroting the “spending other people’s money” tea party meme…really reflect on that, and consider how your corporate insurance company is actually doing that for you, using health dollars for their own profit. That’s just plain dumb, but the politicians in their pockets have convinced you that it’s LIBERTY instead of ROBBERY. And by the way, you are already paying for your neighbor’s visits to the emergency room as well.
T Bell, you do not understand the health care program. It is not socialism, not even universal health care. It is an insurance exchange developed by the Heritage Foundation, GOP and insurance companies to increase sales for insurance companies. Please, get out of your bubble.
Did I understand you correctly….? This was the GOP’s idea for increasing insurance sales..? WOW… What planet are you living on? NO republican voted for this but it is their idea… please inform yourself….
The idea did originate at Heritage. It was later opposed by the Republicans because it was adopted by the Democrats. Just because no Republicans voted for it does not mean that the idea did not originate with them.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/individual-health-care-insurance-mandate-has-long-checkered-past/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/the-individual-mandates-c_b_1386716.html
Please inform yourself…
Are you disputing that the idea for the individual mandate came from Heritage?
He’s right it was developed by the heritage foundation instituted in Massachusetts By former republican Gov. Mitt Romney, and is very successful he even tried to brag on it, but the tea party made retract the statement and shut up about it. So it was originally a conservative idea including the mandate so everyone would take “Person Responsibility” for their own health-care needs and not leave tax payers the bill. and it would create more wealth for the medial industry with some twenty million Americans signing up and paying for it themselves out of their own pocket and not the taxpayers purse. it is a boon for medical industry. Equipment sales will go up, increased influx of money will attract attract more people into the medical field, more equipment tech jobs to keep the equipment running, pharmaceutical companies will see profits explode as billions more pills will be prescribed, and new offices opening up and more health-care companies emerge will bring a boon to commercial real estate
Medical supply companies will also see an increase in sales as more supplies are needed to service this new wave of patients. From gauze to sheets and beds pillowcases and such to iv drips to more opening for nurse and so much more. The ACA is going to boost the economy in, perhaps, unlike anything we’ve encountered. Also new medical facilities are going to need to be maintained, cleaning companies, if they are vigilante can make a lot of money. In my home town I have seen and increase of medical facilities built and yet in the building process, as facilities that stood vacant since 2008 have been filled. In my community alone I have seen six or seven facilities pop up in the last 3 years. That’s all within a five mile radius of my home. I suspect more will follow. Let’s not forget more gift shops, more cafeteria workers, more kitchen crew to feed the the huge number if patients coming into the system many of them will have preexisting conditions and many will end up in the hospital. here in my home town th Carolinas Medial Center has increased it size twice in the last 4 years and is currently working on that second expansion. The ACA is not what the GOP is making out to be. A lot of people who are savvy enough, can make huge sums of money in the medical industry because of Obamacare. more jobs more construction smaller premiums, better health care and more wealth. less people stiffing us with the bill for their health-care.
In fact NO GOP put 1 single vote into this JOB KILLING BILL.
We have to pass it to see whats in it , is always a great policy ..
Congress, Big buisness, IRS, cronies of POTUS all exempt but YOU the peasants – THATS A HUGE FLAG
JOBS well if you can get one , and than find another to just make a living w/o employer provided health ins.
33% want the ACA , remainder does not.
MEDICAID is always awesome to be on if thats what you choose , you just have to pay for that NOW.
TYRANNY at its finest hour and the sheeple love it
Yes JC. Frankly one would have to be on another planet not to know that this plan was originally a Republican plan in 1993 and the Democrat/ Republican sides were reversed. There were 4-5 opposition plans to Clinton’s healthcare plan and this was a Heritage Foundation format that included the mandate. It has since worked well in Mass and Democrats have changed their minds to support it. That change makes sense, because they have learned from experience that it works. The Republican’s change however, in the face of evidence that their own idea was a good one, does not make sense. They only oppose it because they oppose Obama and don’t want him to accomplish anything – even if it is for the good of the people. please inform yourself.
With NO respect, T. Bell, what in the hell is wrong with you
? Were you born stupid, or have you recently suffered a hard blow to the head?
People. Even if the other side is not being nice, it is our responsibility to respond calmly and respectfully. T. Bell is misinformed. Help him understand. Name calling and insults won’t get us anywhere. We’re just playing into the super-sensationalist divisions that the media uses to get more viewers/more money. But we are real people. We can remember our manners and have civilized discussions.
Thanks, Jenni. Well said.
Don’t see how that is possible for two reasons. This isn’t government healthcare. Its private companies competing and providing healthcare and secondly, since about5 percent or so of the populace controls over 70% of the wealth, that number couldn’t possibly be true.
If they were truly competing we would be buying insurance across state lines.
If the United States of America were truly united then we would be buying insurance across state lines. Pop into an emergency room or clinic in a state outside of your own and more proof.
A lot is wasted on disjointed laws and dissperate public education.
Asking that your $’s be spent for your healthcare rather than administrative costs and satisfying a group of greedy shareholders is hardly ‘controlling’.
The 80% to be spent on ‘healthcare’ appears to have made these greedy corporations actually begin to compete with each other and do things that will cause better heathcare service. How can anyone disagree with that?
Insurance is America’s Largest Organized Criminal Enterprise. The hide their worst crimes with Vacatur. They are the ones who have destroyed our healthcare system, and if you think they do a better job than the government, which uses 3 cents of a healthcare dollar for administration, when insurers waste forty cents, you are dead wrong. Besides, it is the banks that really control things, not the government.
We are so lucky to live in a democratic country where the government changes hands without incident, where the government provides model health insurance for its elderly, a government which allows us to speak, yell, complain about it without repercussions. I have lived abroad twice, and I am always so glad to come home to the freedoms AND the responsibilities of citizenship I enjoy in the USA.
Washington, who cannot control itself, controls little of our economy. What it has become very good at is assigning more and more debt to the Social Security wage earner. Over 65% of our GDP is based on the output of the multinational financial institutions that run the show. We are still Quantitative Easing these cancers (corporate welfare) In descending order our exports are debt, munitions and war, gm food, cigarettes, wood chips and scrap metal. Because of our worship of the dollar the Federal Reserve has become our religious institution.. By the way Ben Brenake is not the Pope. The Fed will neither tell us who the Pope is nor who the Cardinals are. Our “representatives” are nothing more than front men for these people. I’m very sad to say that our economy cannot grow without war and debt. Obamacare is way down on my list of worries. With Russia and China about to drop the dollar as their fiat currency, the Empire of the Dollar is over. Don’t worry, the Fed will keep on printing money but we will not get any of it. The money we get to keep is worth less and less every day.
T Bell…this is not socialized medicine nor universal healthcare. ACA was designed with the insurance companies to be an exchange, to help them make more money and to provide healthcare to the People. By refusing the navigators to educate North Carolinians and by refusing federal Medicaid money, McCrory was just hoping to help theACA to fail. It is their one idea to get back the White House. The major fear in this GOP led mess is the Koch brothers. The Koch brothers have planned the fiasco to regain control of the White House….why can’t the Americans see how they are being led over a cliff? WAKE UP TAR HEELS!
Washington is not taking control of health care. Where is this myth coming from?
Look, T Bell, there is no government healthcare system other than the VA. Everything else is through private insurers. And there is no government control..there is regulation of the industry because it is such a large part of the economy and the purpose of that regulation is the same as it is for all industries..to keep them from robbing us blind! They are corporations and they exist to make money for their stockholders..they have no morals, they have no conscience..they are corporate entities. They are capitalism and they have to have regulation.
“if Washington takes over health care it will control more than 70 percent of the economy. ”
Well, IF that were the case, it might be ‘wort taking into consideration.”
But that is not the case at all. If you own a car, ‘the government’ requires you to purchase liability insurance and sets the minimum coverage(s) you must purchase. If you fail to do so, they will take your tags. And, if you drive regardless, they will charge you with a crime, fine you and can even put you in jail and confiscate your vehicle (in some states). Note: In some states, if you are very rich, you can post a bond and be considered ‘self-insured.’
With the PP&AHCA, the government is saying that, if you want to be eligible for health care in this country, you have to pay for it. As opposed to using the Emergency Room as your family doctor and letting ‘others’ cover the cost of your care.
If you are very poor, the government offers Medicaid. If you are not poor enough for that, but not particularly well-off, they will subsidize the cost of your (now standardized minimum coverage) health insurance policy.
By doing this, the pool of individuals insured grows exponentially and the relative risk to the insurer is reduced by a similar factor. The result is a reduction in the cost of Health Insurance ‘across the board.”
Previously, Insurance companies excluded people they felt were ‘high risk’ for any number of reasons – most notably those with ‘preexisting conditions’ ranging from Diabetes to Fertility. They also created small print ‘lifetime caps’ for what they did ‘cover.’ The stories of folks ‘running out of coverage’ despite paying premiums their entire life are everywhere.
And the cost for even these piss poor policies were inflated because the hospitals and doctors have to charge more to those who do pay to make up for all those uninsured folks who don’t pay or can’t pay – they can’t very well refuse to treat a dying man because he can’t show proof of insurance when they drag him out of the wrecked car!
With the PP&AHCA (derisively called ‘Obamacare’ by the opponents), te goal is to have EVERYONE buy a Health Insurance Policy and to force Insurance Companies to spend 90% of the premiums collected on actual health care (as opposed to advertising, executive salaries and expensive office buildings).
The PP&AHCA is not ‘Socialized Medicine’ after the British or Canadian models. In fact, it is simply an expansion of The American Model whereby each person is responsible for their own health care and purchases coverage on the open ‘free’ market.
If you had a policy prior to the law being enacted, the insurance company could not cancel you – you could keep what you had – and that policy would ave to meet the minimum standards to boot and they could not increase the charge more than seven or ten percent.
Now, buying Health Insurance is a simpler deal because all policies ‘on the exchange’ must offer equivalent coverage regardless which company sells it to you. In effect, Health Insurance salesmen are non regulated as we have regulated auto insurance for years.
I can understand the anti ‘Big Government’ philosophy. But there are things we cannot do well individually and monitoring insurance providers is one of them. Similarly, regulating Beef producers to make sure that burger’s not half horse meat or ten-percent rat is another.
Look at who finances the campaigns of these folks screaming about ‘Obamacare’ – look very closely. And for a comparison, take a run down Memory Lane and read what was said about the idea of Social Security when that law was passed. And read what was said about Medicare ‘back then.’
Ayn Rand was a Soviet Union Expatriate who was writing about what she experienced in the USSR under Communism. The Fountainhead makes .for interesting reading for Paul Ryan, et al, but it’s not an American philosophy and we shouldn’t let her adherents dictate American Economic and Social policy.
You folks who oppose the PP&AHCA should read more, listen less to Rupert Murdock (after all, he’s and Australian) and his Faux Nues Minions and do the research as if a school project that would be graded by a hard-ass teacher. Hell, you might learn something.
What you don’t understand is that those who went on the exchange, even those of us who could afford insurance and are NOT eligible for subsidies, have had their insurance rates tripled. When our family opted to go to an exchange (our current monthly was $4,459) for cheaper insurance, we found BCBS for just $1,112 per month. Our premium has gone up every year since and is now $3,490, just shy of what it was a two years ago. AHC has truly been sabotaged and we will be paying more than “out the nose”. Thanks McCrory.